Meeting Transcripts

Opening Remarks

Welcome

Thank you very much for coming to camp meeting and for coming to our meeting here today.

This work is becoming more and more global with the advent of the internet, and that is a good thing. The internet will help to increase harmony in our organization around the world. It will become impossible for any one group to operate in an independent fashion from the rest. We thank God for that. 

Spouses Are a Team

We are happy to have the spouses here again. I did not look back to see what material we have covered with the spouses in the past. It may have been more devotional in tone, whereas today, hopefully, it will be a bit more instructional. It will be typical of what we usually cover at ministers’ meetings, which is, for the most part, no different than what is covered in our church services. It is nice to have the spouses with us because as a husband and wife we are a team. The combination of all those teams makes up the Gospel work in the Apostolic Faith Church.

In every case, our spouses either add to the effectiveness of our ministry or detract from it. It is important that we operate as a team. The question has been asked, “Which comes first, our marriage or our ministry?” I’ll let you think on that before I answer. In one sense, the ministry comes first, but in another sense, the marriage comes first. If we sacrifice one for the sake of the other, we will damage both, so they cannot be separated. More accurately, they are inseparable. We recognize the fact that God has used those, over the annuals of history, who have had unhealthy marriages, but that is not the standard by which we conduct ourselves. The Bible is the standard. Nevertheless, if you find yourself in that situation, obviously not of your own making, God can add you to the catalog of those who have been used, the marriage situation notwithstanding. We must keep our marriages strong. Our worldwide work will only be as strong as the marriages in the ministry of this work. We cannot abandon our marriages; we must court our spouses the same as we did before we said, “I do.” If we do that, God will bless our marriages, and as a result, our ministry, our local church, and this worldwide work.

Laborers Together

“For we are labourers together with God” (1 Corinthians 3:9)

Introduction

I have notes that have been randomly compiled, so we will skip from one subject to the next. You will be able to tell when we are on a new subject—you will figure it out. This is a new subject for example.

Thoughts on Preaching

Start with the text

When we preach, we open by reading the text. Right from the beginning, you have a moment of opportunity as to where you are going to draw the attention of the audience. You can immediately draw their attention to the weather by talking about the weather, or to something else other than the text. However, if you open by reading the text, you will immediately draw their attention to the text. That is what we want to do. There are exceptions, last night was an exception, when we had a great Independence Day celebration. When we travel it would be impolite not to acknowledge the audience who has gathered and express appreciation for the fact that they have come and for the privilege we have to be there ourselves. But I was taught early on to read the text first, so you can be the judge as to whether or not I have followed that.

The Minister’s Manual instructs us to choose the plainest text that we can, and to keep it simple. You can give the context after you have read the text. If you read the context, it is more difficult for the audience to focus on where you might be going. We do not want to hide where we are going. If we are successful, the audience will know the entire time where we are going to end up. If we meander about, then they are meandering about trying to catch up with us, and ultimately they take a side trip somewhere, and we lose them. So we want to keep a simple text.

An example of a long text would be the account of Zacchaeus. If you read all ten verses in Luke 19, you will forfeit the opportunity to tell the account in your own words. We want to hear it in your words, so do not say, “You know the story.” When I hear that, I want to reply, “No, no, I do not know the account the way you tell it.” Also, do not say, “I know you have heard this before.” If you are bored with it, then we will be bored with it.

Give the context of your text

This keeps us from pulling an unintended meaning from it. By the way, I am intentionally avoiding the context of my text in 1 Corinthians 3:9, because this is not a sermon, and time will not allow me to go into it. If I were to give the context of that chapter, I would look at the history of the church at Corinth and their divisions, and I would refer to the fact that the source of their divisions was carnality and the foundation for their unity was Christ. However, we are not going to spend much time on that today, nor would we in a sermon, because the text is the message we want to convey. We want one main point.

I usually have the opportunity to read “Recent Happenings,” a recap of our services, before it is posted. Many times I have thought, Well, that sure is a muddled description of my sermon. But then I realize that it is actually an accurate summary of a muddled sermon. If we are successful, the audience will know what we have preached on when we are finished. And a report will be written that will make us smile and think, They got it. When that doesn’t happen, it is not a reflection on the writer, but on the preacher. So read the text, know the context, refer to it, and illustrate it.

Use illustrations

Spurgeon said that illustrations are the windows of a house that let the light in. To illustrate that we are laborers together, I thought about my hayfield days. When the hay was raked and bailed, we would take out a truck with a conveyor on it. The truck would go along about twenty-five miles an hour, scooping up the bails, and feeding them up the conveyor. One would drive the truck, another would stand on the moving truck at the end of the conveyor belt and throw the bails to a third person—the stacker. We worked together. It was okay as long as the truck driver went twenty-five miles an hour and did not hit his brakes or surge in his speed. And it was okay as long as the off-loader noticed when he had inundated the stacker and helped out. We worked together, and so it is here. The different elements of a Gospel meeting work together to accomplish a purpose. All of us are laborers together for a common cause.

When I first started preaching, I would read the text first. Brother Nolan Roby taught me to do that, and then try my best. I found it easy to just compile a list of a dozen other places in the Bible that supported the text. So after a few sermons, Brother Nolan said, “You know, you are going to ruin future sermons. You are going to run out of stories.” I began to observe preachers that I appreciated, and I always liked it when they focused in on one account and told me what it said, what to do with it, and how it works in life. I was inspired when that was successfully done, but it’s not always easy to do. We have license to give supporting Scriptures for our text. Then we apply it to every-day life.

At the end, of course, we hopefully have been building toward an altar call where we will invite the audience to act upon what we have delivered to them. We do not abruptly shut our Bibles and walk away leaving them stunned. We want to tell them, “Now you can act upon what the Word of God has said.” For example, we might say, “We are laborers together. Are you laboring? Have you started yet? Have you been saved? If not, you can be if you start today. Come forward and pray.” It should not be in thirty seconds or sixty seconds or perhaps ninety seconds, but it also should not go on and on and on. There is balance, and I think everyone tries to do the best they can, and we thank God for that.

Be evangelistic in tone

Some preachers have the amazing ability in one sermon to encourage everyone in the entire audience, no matter where they are in their spiritual walk, including backsliders, sinners, disinterested, saints of God, stalwarts, and seekers. At the end of the sermon, the sinner feels that even if they do not pray that day, they want to if only they could get up the courage. The seeker responds by believing that God is going to do it. The saint is just appreciative of the Gospel. How this is done, I know not, except by simply delivering God’s Word faithfully. That will do the job.

Do not take a Sunday night meeting to give a Bible teaching. When we give too much context or too many supporting Scriptures, it feels like we have sat through a Bible teaching instead of an evangelistic Gospel meeting. We want to do our best to be evangelistic in that setting. The Bible teaching responsibility belongs to the pastor or to those who are appointed by the pastor. There are certainly occasions for Bible teachings, but otherwise, give an evangelistic message.

Also, do not cover what the pastor needs to cover or what you think the pastor should be covering. What you may not know is that the pastor is covering that, but privately, so it does not become elevated to the point where the whole church knows the problem that is being preached about. If that happens, the only one who doesn’t know what you are preaching about is the person to whom the problem pertains; they miss it entirely. Don’t go there! If you are aware of something, be assured that God is dealing with it already. If you deal with it, you jeopardize messing the whole thing up.

Conclude with an altar call

Being evangelistic will keep us focused on the end result, which is the altar call. That is where we are headed, so we need to give thought to the altar call ahead of time. If we do not know where we are going, we are not going to end there. When you came to Portland, you knew your destination. More specifically, you knew this address. So it is with the end of a sermon—there is a certain focal point, a certain address. Aim that way and you will at least get close to it.

Stay positive and inspire

Do not preach out of frustration. If you are frustrated about something, then pray it through and then preach. Nothing is more frustrating than hearing a frustrated preacher. Along those same lines, don’t be harsh with your audience; they don’t have to be there. In fact, they won’t be the next time. If you leave them bloodied and beat up where they have to crawl out of the place, they will not come back. So there is nothing to gain. The saints of God are volunteers. They are as devoted as you and me. In fact, being a preacher didn’t suddenly transform us into bionic creatures where we are perfect. We are not. If we convey ourselves as though we are, the people will know we are not because they can see that already. So preach because you are inspired. Don’t be frustrated. Frustration is an indicator of a lack of appreciation for the beloved people in your audience. They are the most beautiful people on earth. They are people, but so are the rest of us. The Gospel is not a military camp. These are the saints of God who voluntarily come, and we should view them that way. We are not the general who can bark orders here and there and snap our fingers and it’s done. We can do it for a while until we wear out the people one at a time, and then pretty soon we have nobody around to bark orders to or snap our fingers at. This is not a military camp—it is the Gospel. Jesus described the scribes and Pharisees as hypocrites. Our people are not scribes, Pharisees, or hypocrites. They are saints of God.

We must stick to what we are entitled to preach on. If we do not pray faithfully, we should not preach on prayer. If our family life is not in order, we should not preach anything that pertains to family life. If we are impatient or impetuous, we should not preach on Job or on Peter. If we have trouble subjecting ourselves to authority, we should not preach on obeying God. In fact, we should not preach!

Be aware of the time

In our sermons, even in this ministers’ meeting, I am well aware of the law of diminishing return—many words do not make up for a lack of content. Do not say the same thing over and over again. Every one of us even today, could take a twenty-minute sermon or a sixty-minute ministers’ meeting, and edit that down to where it could be spoken more efficiently. We want to be efficient. We do not want to waste people’s time—it’s valuable. We love the Word of God, there’s no doubt about that, but we want to have the most impact. So deliver your message, and do not wear the congregation down until they are tired and ready to go home and have a bowl of ice cream and go to bed.

We say, “Thank You Jesus,” rather than “Thank You Holy Ghost,” because the Holy Spirit draws attention to Jesus, not himself. See John 16:13-14.

Camp meeting itself is designed to be evangelistic in nature rather than a conference or a seminar setting. I have been asked more than one time if we could use PowerPoint for Bible teachings. Certainly there is an appropriate place for that, but we do not want to lose the flavor of the evangelistic setting of a camp meeting convention. This is camp meeting. Thank God for those other venues, but we want to be keeping the evangelistic tone of camp meeting.

Be sensitive to your audience

In one of my first sermons I preached on Balaam’s ass. I must have used that phrase forty times. Brother Nolan (my pastor who asked me to preach and then mentored me for five years) had an easy solution—Balaam’s brute beast! Now I know that after the first time you say it, you can refer to it as a mule or donkey. Show sensitivity to the audience. In Philippians 3:8, Paul spoke of having “suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ.” That’s not quite as serious as some other offensive words, but Brother Norman Allen told Brother Nolan that we substitute refuse. Another word, that I used, would be rubbish, but I would use refuse if I were to do it again.

There are some Bible texts that I simply will not read. King James did not know how the language would change four hundred years later. I love the language of the king, however, some words or texts can be avoided. If there is a certain text that you badly want to read, consult with your pastor if you have questions about it. The trouble is that every pastor did not serve under Brother Nolan, so that pastor might call Brother Nolan and ask.

We must be careful when preaching on the Biblical accounts of the physically and mentally impaired so that we in no way disrespect the members of our audience. In your own branch church, you may not be aware of this. I did not have that awareness until coming to Portland. We have a number of people who cannot speak or are hearing or sight impaired. There are those in wheelchairs, and others who are ill in one manner or another. It is a challenge, because the Bible does give frequent mention to the lame, the halt, the blind, the deaf and the dumb, and so on. At different times, I have had conversations with Sister Charlene Cook, and Sister Marylee Walden, and others. You might wonder, Are they sensitive? They say they are. Are we insensitive? I think it is more that we are lacking awareness. We do not live where they live. We do not have any thought about it. I have spoken very candidly to them in support of the preacher who gets up there and does his best to deliver the Word of the Lord. The last time that I had a conversation with them, I gave them the facts, which are as follows, briefly stated: physical blindness is used in the Bible to illustrate the more serious condition of spiritual blindness. The state of physical blindness is used in the Bible to illustrate the more serious state of sin. The carefulness is not to equate blindness or a blind person as a sinner. John, chapter 9, covers that.

I did a check and found seventy-nine direct Bible references to the blind. That does not include the indirect ones and the darkness verses; sinners walk in darkness according to the Bible. In addition, there are seventy-nine references to the deaf, the dumb, the impotent, and the cripple—those terms. Of the latter group, nearly every instance in reference to the physical condition of the individual involved. Of the seventy-nine referring to blind or blindness, it is heavily weighted toward being used as an illustration for spiritual blindness. We did not write the Bible, and this is how those verses are used in the Bible.

Now let’s advocate for sensitivity. For the sake of awareness, let me share some of the experiences that Charlene has had. I cannot recall what the exact circumstances were, but in the doctor’s office, someone in a wheelchair said to Sister Char, “I would rather be dead than be blind like you.” Since the gasoline prices have skyrocketed, Sarah Walden, who does not drive due to a form of degenerative eye disease, has been told, “You know, you are so lucky that you do not have to pay the high price of gasoline.” That’s like telling a bereaved mother and father who have buried one of their young children, “Well, at least you have other children.”

We are not malicious. However, we can say horrible things without malice. We want to be sensitive, and here’s the key: We do not want to characterize a modern impaired individual as helpless or hopeless. Nowadays, people who are physically impaired can get along very well and do not want their dignity stripped from them, so we must be aware. If you are afraid to preach on blind Bartimaeus again, it may not be a bad thing. If you do preach on it again, I hope your sensitivity will be greater than it was before.

It is offensive to a blind person or anyone else to have their disability compared to a death sentence, like it is the worst possible thing that could happen in life. Sister Char told me sometime back that she was solicited to participate in a group that advocates for the blind and raises funds to find a cure for blindness. When she had her conversation with them, she was candid and told them, “I’m not fighting blindness—I’m not waiting for a cure.” I’m telling you this to give you her mentality. She is an achiever, so is Sarah Walden, and so are the others whose names I have not mentioned. Please do not diminish their capacity to get through life by insulting them. We have to be more aware.

Did you notice that when Jeremiah Marincus, some of whose family members are here today, came down and sat on the front row? It is so easy to take someone with a mentally diminished capacity and look at their behavior and say, “That’s bad behavior.” No it isn’t; it’s natural and appropriate behavior for them. We have to be careful to distinguish between someone who has a devil and someone who has a malady that is a result of the Fall. Every problem can have a trail that leads back to the Fall. I could blame the Fall on the fact that I can get mixed up. Or forget someone’s name or whatever. Do not tell someone they have a devil just because they are acting appropriately for whatever disease they have. We can pray over them that God would heal them, but do not pray over them to cast the devil out. That’s not good.

Also, we do not mock Zacchaeus for being short, because we have short people in our audience. We do not draw much attention to the fact that Eli the priest was extraordinarily heavy, or to those who wear glasses or who are losing their hair. Thank you! We do not say that sin eats away like a cancer because we would not say that if we had cancer. I am not addressing these subjects to be politically correct. I am addressing them to be Biblical. It is about respect, dignity, kindness, and gentleness. Also, we do not mock the medical community or those who use it. We support those who use it, because they are going through the most difficult times of their lives. They do not want to be in need of it. We appreciate the medical community, because one day we may need them. If we have not needed them before, we should not denigrate them.

Be supportive

When we listen to a sermon and the preacher says something that sounds appropriate, we should say, “Amen!” We do not have to say it if we do not know what they are talking about. In fact, we better not. If the preacher gets off track, we can utter, “Lord, help them.” We need to be merciful in our assessment of the preacher when they have less than a stellar performance because our turn comes along, and we want their mercy extended to us. We should also be quick to defer credit to those around us when there appears to be success, not out of modesty, but because those around us deserve the credit.

Praying for the Sick

When we pray over the sick, we pray over them in a manner that inspires them to look to Jesus. If they come up and we shout and holler and jerk them about, we send them away in worse condition than when they came, because they forgot to look to Jesus. That is part of having sensitivity or awareness as well. Some people are afraid to come to the platform because they do not want attention drawn to themselves. When they do come, they want to quietly come up and obey the Word of God. James did not say that we had to dance a jig or holler and shout and stomp and snort while we pray for their healing. He just said to “call for the elders of the church . . . anointing him with oil . . . and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up” (James 5:14-15). The Bible says, “They shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.” I was taught early on that we put our hand on their head. We do not have to do it firmly; they could have a headache and it would not feel good, so do it gently. Also, we want to be careful not to mess up a woman’s hairdo. We want them to look to Jesus. They should be almost unaware of us. We want them to be aware of Jesus, so one hand on their head and the other hand at your side or behind your back. Do not place your hand on their shoulder, just on the head. That is the way we do it. Don’t ask what is wrong. If we ask, we deserve to be told what is wrong, in all the gory details. It does not matter what is wrong. The Bible does not tell us to ask what is wrong, so let us just stick to what the Bible says to do.

Public Prayer

When we lead in public prayer during meeting, we use “we”, rather than “I,” because we are praying on behalf of the entire congregation. If we are called to lead in prayer and we say, “I this and I that,” the whole congregation notices and they wonder and may think we are arrogant. 

Ministers should be in the prayer room thirty minutes before meeting, as much as possible. We should also pray at the altar as much as possible—for thirty minutes after meeting. I heard a teaching by Brother Forrest Damron years ago where he said it is all right to pray by the clock. He was talking about his private prayer life, but it is good to know when we are praying, and to know how long we prayed. We do not get paid by the hour when we pray, but it will hold us accountable. The need to be an altar worker does not cease after we preach our first sermon. If anything, it is more important than ever because we tell people to come and pray. They know if we do not pray. They also know if we only pray after our own sermon, so we must have a pattern in our lives that includes prayer. There may be times, the minister’s manual says, when a seeker may be in need of a few words of encouragement or counsel, but it must be remembered that prayer, and not talking, takes people to their experiences. We do not want to be known to be long on talk and short on prayer. People need encouragement, but we need prayer. God answers prayer, not man.

Please do not conduct business, even God’s business, in the altar area. We have all done it. We start out thinking it’s a thirty-second conversation, and it quickly extends.

Pray out. When we pray, we should pray out, because we are in a church, not a mortuary. These really are Gospel meetings, not funerals, so we must pray out. We must have a Spirit of prayer. We do not pray out to be heard. In fact, we really do not want to pray out to be above the tone of everyone else, but we have to pray. If the preachers do not pray, the people won’t pray. We are not in jeopardy of that, but we do need to pray out more efficiently.

Testifying

Testify. If you come here, you are not running the meeting, but if nobody testifies you feel uneasy. How do you feel if you are at home and you are running the meeting and nobody testifies? You cover up the fact that you are a little anxious because you know the audience is looking at you and saying, “What is he going to do; nobody is getting up?” Well, I’ll tell you what I do. I am going to look at you and think, Why aren’t you getting up? So testify. You were used to getting up before you started preaching, so keep doing what you always did.

Personal Protocol

Men please dress neatly. The Minister’s Manual says, “Keep your shoes shined and watch your posture while sitting.” On the platform chairs, have you ever seen what trying to prop up a twenty-five pound bag of potatoes looks like? I have not seen that, but I think I know what it would look like. So we want to sit up straight and be attentive. Please do not sit with your legs crossed, where one ankle rests on the other knee. 

Ladies, please be an example of modesty and prove a pattern for the younger ones to follow. They are following your pattern no matter what it is. They presume that if it is okay for you, it is okay for them. They also presume that when something is not addressed publicly, it is okay, and they use the gage of all of us in here to decide that. We are not going to stoop to the level of saying some things publicly and elevating them. We want to elevate God’s Word. I am altogether persuaded that if we do a good job of preaching God’s Word with anointing, that we do not have to be specific. God is faithful to speak to hearts here and there, but even so they are going to look for a gage, they are going to look for a standard. You are the standard. Whatever you do is deemed to be okay. Remember, you are an example!

I did give some details, not too many, in a note to the platform workers. You may not have all seen it—I believe the memo was posted in an inconspicuous spot at the back of the tabernacle. It was suggested that I email it, which was a good suggestion, but I did not want to email it. I am not ashamed of it, but this is not Gospel literature. It was suggested that we run photocopies and pass them out to the two hundred participants. I did not want copies passed out, because it is not Gospel literature. It is important, but if we do our job preaching the sound doctrine of the Gospel then the Spirit of God will cover the details. Anyway, it was read to the adult choir and orchestra members, and the young adults. I would like to read it now because I want it on the record. It was addressed like this:

“Beloved platform workers: Are you interested in appearing on the World-Wide Web, specifically appearing disinterested, looking cross-eyed, yawning, slouching, or just plain looking less than your best as you represent this Latter Rain Gospel? (I am trying to draw a contrast obviously.) Trust me, I am at greater risk than you are since I sit where I sit. This is a reminder that you will be on camera during our camp meeting and will be seen by thousands around the world. Please be keenly aware of your attire and deportment. Men, please wear a suit and tie and be neat in your overall appearance. Ladies, please mind the length of your dress, and your neckline, and refrain from wearing capped or extremely short sleeves. Men and women alike need to sit with their knees together and avoid slouching, gum chewing, or conversing with one another during meeting. We also ask that our workers not color their nails or wear tops that have slogans, words, or logos, all of which tend to draw attention. All of you do such a terrific job already in so many areas that I am reluctant even to provide this notice. However, we really want to present our best to both our local and worldwide audiences. Thank you for your faithfulness and cooperation throughout the year, and we expect the Glory of God to dwell in every heart and in every corner of the tabernacle throughout this camp meeting.”

Notice the lack of details and the brevity. This was not a topic of a Sunday morning sermon or any sermon. Notice that it was not elevated to the position of Gospel literature. Notice that it was a request and not a demand. Notice that there was compliance. They want to do it.

Also, if we were a branch church pastor arriving at a new assignment, we would not want to go right in and start giving directives. I have earned the right amongst the Portland saints to speak to them on such matters. They are not offended, because they know me. They know that I love them and have been there for them.

In the view of some, what I said was not nearly enough. I do not think anyone would view it as too much, but I trust these people. I am not going to insult their intelligence. I do believe that they are the most beautiful people in all the earth, and I am not going to be any more specific as much as I can avoid it publicly. I will one on one if needed. All our workers do a terrific job. We need to focus on the God of Heaven and the glory of God. We need to pray one for another, and not “strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.” God’s people come along. That does not mean we will not say something that needs to be said, but we will be very patient and see what God does. If we give the Lord time, He will do things.

Please do not cite that Brother Darrel or headquarters said you cannot do this or that. That does not leave people bubbling over with enthusiasm. Declare where we are because you believe it, and learn how to articulate it as effectively as you can. We cannot compensate for our poor preaching or lack of anointing by reaching for the biggest club available. It gets back to the sound preaching that God will bless. If I see somebody not responding, then I am not going to go after that person for not responding. I am going to go after myself and say, “What is wrong with my preaching that they are not inspired to respond?” I have been distressed over certain people sitting in meetings Sunday after Sunday living wrong. I have wondered how they could be comfortable in these meetings. I have wondered what was wrong with my preaching. Then I realized it is their problem. I want them to come, so I am not going to go next Sunday morning and beat up on where their failure is. As long as they are coming, I am going to preach God’s Word and believe that it does its job, because it does. You go to your knees and I will go to my knees and we will ask God to help us do a better job.

When you kneel in prayer before meeting on the platform, do so sitting on your heels. 

Counseling 

Men, do not be unduly familiar with the members of the opposite sex. 1 Timothy 5:1, 2 says, “Rebuke not an elder, but entreat him as a father, and the younger men as brethren; the elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.” Notice there is no addendum to others. I like the last three words. No matter what your age is, when you are dealing with a member of the opposite sex that is younger, you treat them as a sister, but you stop short at some point with all purity. So you are not so friendly or so familiar as to approach any impropriety or send any signals, even unwitting signals, that you would later just horribly regret, thinking, you had no idea.

At one of my first ministers’ meetings, Brother Loyce Carver admonished the ministers to be careful with counseling, because we are not counselors. We are not counselors in the contemporary sense of the word. Our job is to offer the counsel of the Lord. We are ministers and pastors of the Gospel. Any couple in here knows that one of the first things I tell them is that my job is to provide them the counsel of the Lord. I am not a marriage counselor in the contemporary sense of the word. I am not. I am not licensed, and am not properly trained, even though I have had training along those lines, but I am not equipped to be a marriage counselor. I am equipped and called to provide the counsel of the Lord. That’s not to say that we cannot read books. They all say the same things—some say it in many words and some in fewer words. We need to approach every situation from the perspective of offering them the counsel of the Lord. There are both ethical and legal considerations in doing otherwise.

One ethical consideration is what is called a “dual relationship.” A dual relationship is where you simultaneously are wearing more than one hat. A licensed marriage counselor for instance, would typically not provide counseling for a relative, because they would be wearing two hats. We are in the same boat in a sense, if we try to wear the hat of a marriage counselor. We are friends, and that is a dual relationship—marriage counselor and friend. So a counselor would refer their relative to someone else. We would not practice dentistry without a license, would we? If someone came to me with a horrible toothache, I have a string and I could yank it, but that would be a dual relationship—minister and dentist. There is an ethical consideration and there is also a legal consideration. We would pray for them that God would heal their toothache, and we would give our blessing for them to go to the dentist and have it addressed. The minister’s job is not to convey his own message. The minister’s job is to convey the counsel of the Lord. It is not our advice; it is God’s advice.

A second ethical consideration is that we are not marriage counselors. We should refer people who need marriage counseling to a marriage counselor. We should do our best to provide the counsel of the Lord to those who need the counsel of the Lord. The legal consideration I have referred to is simply that we lack the academic and legal credentials to provide counseling. A judge and a jury would frown upon that, and so would the insurance company.

Officiating Marriage Ceremonies

Speaking of marriages, we use the ceremony that is in our Minister’s Manual. We do not have prospective brides or grooms write their own marriage ceremonies or their own vows. If we allowed it for one, we would have to allow it for everyone. If we did, every Apostolic Faith person in the audience would know that we are doing what ought not to be done. I’ll just tell you, my own son and daughter-in-law thought it would be a great idea if they could write their own vows. The short answer to that was, “No.” They understood the short answer, but they wanted a longer explanation, so I gave them one. They chose to personalize the ceremony in a different way by giving their history and each reciting a poem to the other, but it was not their vows. It was totally appropriate and I have done it for others too.

Wealthy Donors

The fact that someone donates a lot of money to the church does not give him or her license to exert power over the church. They say money talks, but we do not have to listen. Money also corrupts, and money brings indebtedness. We suddenly owe them. If they cannot give as unto the Lord, they can give it somewhere else. We do not want the Spirit of God hindered. God does not need anyone’s money. God may prove that He can do it without that money. That does not mean that we are rude to them, but we are not indebted, particularly, when the life behind the money is not exemplary. We are indebted to God.

Conflicts

Conflicts will arise, take it by faith. When they arise, take the matter up with the appropriate party. This is a hard lesson to learn, but you will learn it more with time, and you will be more firm with it over time. If someone comes to me with an issue regarding someone else, they do not get very far. My first question is, “Have you addressed it with that party?” If they say, “No,” I tell them in a gentle and kind way to go there first. They are the one with the conflict, they are the one best suited to address it.

People may come to us thinking that so and so has a problem, when it is the person coming who has the problem. So tell them to go to that party in the right spirit. If you think it is appropriate, you can say that it would be helpful if they could come back to you, with or without the other party after speaking to them. Tell them not to come back to you behind the other person’s back; that you want the other party to know that they are coming to you. That will solve a whole lot of problems for you.

We cannot view conflict as unhealthy or something we dread. I really have never met anyone who looks forward to conflict, but conflict can be healthy and productive; it has value. We should see the potential in it, and that will help us approach it appropriately. Sometimes ministers have problems with their pastor. If it is a personality or even a procedural issue, it could be that God is trying to work out a personality or procedural issue in your heart. That is all right, but you just address it; you deal with it. We are all different.

The pastors who are transferred from one place to the next are called upon to adapt to the congregation rather than to expect the congregation to adapt to them. You cannot just go somewhere and wipe the slate clean, and think we will do it my way and it will be right. You may get your way, but it will not be right, because you will not have anybody with you. We have to have the congregation on board, because it is their church. We just showed up for a spell, but it is their church. So get them on board. They expect us to have the wisdom to be able to do that, and if we lack it, we can ask for it.

I have told more than one person in a situation like that, when it involves people for whom I have great admiration, respect, and love, that I am not going to “throw that person under the bus,” because I need them. I just told someone in the last month, “I need that person, and so do you, but I’m also not going to throw you under the bus. I need you.” We need everyone, we need each other. So we must approach conflict like the adults we are, and God will bless us and it will result in harmony and unity.

Differing Perspectives

Please consider that I hear deeply held views expressed with conviction, sincerity, and passion on completely opposing sides of any one issue. When you talk to me, I may not always disclose that yesterday I heard from someone else with equal passion from a totally opposing perspective. In that sense, I lose every time because someone is going to be less than ecstatic. Really, I don’t lose, though, because we are laborers together with God, and we all want the same thing whether we plant or water. We depend upon God to give the increase.

Closing Remarks

I have been watching the clock—it is 11:18. I told you we would be dismissed by 11:15. Thanks for the overtime. I do believe in the law of diminishing returns, and I typically do not want to go this long, but it just seemed appropriate this year. I hope you are not worn out, but rather encouraged and renewed with vigor to go forth for the rest of camp meeting and expect God to shower down His blessings upon you, your spouse, your loved ones and family, and the people in your church. Our hope is that a great revival will yet break out right here. We will be dismissed. Let’s stand and be led in prayer. 

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