Meeting Transcripts

‍Opening Remarks

Introduction

Thanks to everyone for coming together today. I believe Brother Ed Habre’s prayer at the beginning covered this session, along with your continued prayers. We do appreciate the time and economic sacrifices everyone makes in order to be here. We know it is not always convenient, but we pray that you will benefit by having come, and the camp meeting certainly benefits by having you present.

Agenda

I thought we would take the twenty-question approach today. In America when traveling with little children, we sometimes play Twenty Questions during the drive. The object is to think of a person, place, or thing and have the other passengers guess what it is. To start, you would say, “I’m thinking of something”—it might be this altar—and someone would ask the first question. This is typically, “Is it bigger than a breadbox?” You would say, “Yes,” and then someone would ask a second question, and so on. Twenty questions is all one gets to guess the answer. Well, this is no game, but it provides a format whereby we will respond to twenty questions.

Notice that I said, “We will respond to twenty questions” rather than, “We will answer twenty questions.” Keep in mind that the dynamics of the question when it was proposed was whatever it was, but a similar question could come up where the dynamics or the background are totally different. As the dynamics vary, so can the response. I am sure that what is presented here will lead to discussion being generated.

The first three questions relate to Psalm 133, but the last seventeen relate to questions that have come my way over the past year. I will do my best to respond to them publically, having already done so privately.

Platform Etiquette

Before we begin, let me address something quickly. It has been brought to my attention that we men, when we sit on the platform on the ministers’ row, need to remember that we are not relaxed for a Sunday afternoon nap. We want to sit up in an erect manner with good posture rather than be slouched over in the corner of our chairs as if we are about to dose off. Even if you are about to dose off, it will be less obvious if you will sit up straight.

Also, we do not want our legs spread wide open. We don’t want the ladies to do that, and the men shouldn’t either. This means that you are not to cross your leg where your one ankle is on top of your knee. This was brought to my attention by a courageous young woman. We expect the ladies to be modest, so we need to give the men equal opportunity.

Twenty Questions

“Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! It is like the precious ointment upon the head that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron’s beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments; As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the Lord commanded the blessing, even life for evermore” (Psalm 133).

1: What makes unity so good and so pleasant?

I mentioned a week ago when we had the brunch in the Fellowship Lodge that in reading the 133^rd Psalm, immediately three questions come to mind. Often we only read the first verse, but there are three verses. The first question that comes to mind is: What makes unity so good and pleasant?

Think of David and consider the division that occurred in his family and in the kingdom. It is no wonder that when he was in a position to be with someone in unity, he found it good and pleasant. We feel the same way. So it is with the household of faith when we come together like this. We have come from about twenty-five different countries with different cultures, and from different backgrounds. Yet, we come together under the banner of a common faith, and that is what gives us our unity.

I have heard some say, and I don’t think any of us would disagree, that the bond of fellowship we enjoy with believers in this common faith is stronger than other types of bonds. For example, the bond felt at a family reunion where you are getting together with people who don’t share this faith. Our faith is what makes unity good and pleasant, and we thank God for it.

2: How is unity like that precious ointment?

First, the ointment that ran down Aaron’s beard was rare and costly, and so is unity. The ointment came from a specific formula that we can find in Exodus 30. It was not to be duplicated. That is what made it rare. I saw a headline, online in the news that I read, that said it is possible that before long everyone on the planet will be a billionaire. I did not read the article, but I understood it to be declaring that a meteorite of gold would strike earth, making everyone a billionaire. Whoever wrote the article doesn’t know about the law of supply and demand. If everyone has something, then it isn’t rare. The reason unity is rare is because it costs us something. It costs us in denying ourselves and subjecting ourselves to God.

Second, the ointment emitted a pleasant fragrance to God, and so does unity. Also, the ointment was consecrated for the Lord’s service. We who are here, if we are truly consecrated, are devoted to God and to His service. That brings unity as it did to the 120 on the day of Pentecost. Furthermore, the ointment ran down upon Aaron’s beard. It started out being poured over his head and it flowed beyond where it was poured out. So it is with unity. It goes beyond where it begins, it spreads.

3: How is unity like the dew of Hermon?

As children we used to sleep outside in sleeping bags behind the house in Roseburg. I have no idea why children like to do such things, but we did. Overnight, the dew would descend so much that the sleeping bags would become quite damp and cold. The dew that “descended upon the mountains of Zion” made the valley floor green and lush. So it is with unity. It is like dew in that it brings spiritual flourishment. Under those conditions, the Lord can command His blessing, and indeed it falls.

“Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free; but Christ is all, and in all” (Colossians 3:11).

The fact that we are from different cultures does not need to hinder our unity. We see in the New Testament where people from a variety of cultures were united in Christ. Look at Colossians 3:11. We know there was no natural affinity between the Jew and the Gentile. It was quite the opposite. Paul characterized this in Ephesians 2:14 as a middle wall of partition between them. However, Jesus broke that wall down and they became united by a common faith.

Though we have unity, we can’t ignore that cultural differences exist, even within the Apostolic Faith. Geographically and due to ethnicity, we do come from different backgrounds. Even within the same country, we do. I grew up on a farm while many grew up in a city. There will be differences in thinking, and other differences of all kinds.

Furthermore, within each culture, it’s important to remember that generational differences exist. We cannot expect a fourteen-year-old to think like a forty-year-old, or act like one. We can’t expect a twenty-year-old to act like a sixty-year-old. We cannot impose our mindset or expectations upon someone a fraction of our age. Anytime this thought occurs to me, I am reminded of how I conducted myself at that age—whatever age I might be observing. My viewpoint is that anyone twenty-one years of age or younger is doing far better than I was at that age. We must remember that generational differences exist and need to be recognized. For unity to exist, understanding and grace must flow both ways. We cannot expect it to flow our way from the younger generation if we don’t exercise it toward them.  

4: How should public prayers be prayed?

Now we will turn our attention to questions that have come to me of late. The first question relates to one praying publically. We want to follow Jesus’ model prayer—a public prayer that He prayed.

“After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses” (Matthew 6:9-15).

Notice that Jesus used “our,” “we,” and “us.” That is what we should do when we pray publically, because we are praying on behalf of the entire body of believers that is gathered. So, rather than using, “I,” “me,” or “mine,” we would say “our,” “we,” and “us.” We wouldn’t stand up and say, “I pray, O God, that You would . . .” No, we would say, “We pray, O God, that You would enter into this service and bless us.” We wouldn’t end with, “bless me.” Nor should we characterize our prayer as our individual prayer, saying, “I pray.” We would say, “We pray.”

Also, our prayers should conclude by invoking the name of Jesus. So we conclude by saying, “In Jesus’ name.” Sometimes we hear people who are not thinking say, “In Your name.” That would be praying to God in God’s name, which wouldn’t be the end of the world, but Jesus is our High Priest. We have access to God through Jesus, so we pray, “O God, that You would enter into this service and that You would bless it. And we ask this in Jesus’ name.”

5: Do we allow preachers who are not part of the Apostolic Faith Church to fill our pulpits?

We use only our preachers in our services. We are not ecumenical, and we don’t try to be. We make no apologies for this. There is a reason why preachers outside the Apostolic Faith are outside the Apostolic Faith. They do not wish to subject themselves to the order of the Apostolic Faith. We are not going to endorse someone who doesn’t want to subordinate themselves to the Apostolic Faith order and thereby teach that they need not subordinate themselves. However, that is their prerogative. We are not going to be critical of them for that. If God has called them to do something different, then may the Lord help them and bless what they do. At the same time, it is our prerogative to set the standard for how we conduct ourselves in the Apostolic Faith organization and who we use in our services. We use our own preachers in our church. To do otherwise would create confusion.

“For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints” (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Our church has an order to follow just the same as every other church and organization in the world. It doesn’t matter that other organizations are different than ours. They are entitled to have a different order. We don’t ask anything of them. We are only concerned about ourselves. Portland is the world headquarters of the Apostolic Faith organization, and we have branch churches. If a branch church is autonomous, it is not Apostolic Faith. Think about a bank such as the Bank of America, which operates globally. It has a world headquarters in San Francisco and has many branches elsewhere. It has a branch near here, which represents the headquarters in San Francisco. It is the same for our branch churches.

We have tried our best to do away with the word “affiliation,” because in part, it makes absolutely no sense to say, “I affiliate with the Apostolic Faith.” I don’t know what that means. You’re either Apostolic Faith or you’re not. You are either a branch of, and accountable to, and part of the Apostolic Faith, representing world headquarters wherever you are, or you are something else—which you are entitled to be, by the way.  

Where the number of our church congregants warrant in any country, we have local constitutions in order to operate within that country. That is especially necessary if the church has assets such as a church building, and perhaps even a bank account. We don’t suggest that where twenty or thirty people are gathered together in Brazil, for example, that a constitution be crafted, unless local law demands it. Then of course, we recommend that it is done.

When a constitution is crafted, it is done in a manner so that the church becomes a branch of the world headquarters, equal with branch churches around the world. Portland issues a prototype constitution, and that constitution is distributed and adapted to conform to local law. The laws of the State of Oregon, from which our prototype was legally crafted, are obviously going to be different than the laws of somewhere in India, for example. Over time, it is wise to review the constitutions that have been crafted years ago in order to make sure they still comply with current law at any given location.

In the Apostolic Faith, our constitution stipulates that leadership appointments are made from Portland. However, lest anyone think that Portland lords over every area, let me tell you that we simply don’t. We don’t live in other areas, so we rely upon the leaders of any given area to help discern who God has appointed to be a leader or who God has called to be a preacher. Leadership roles are not democratically determined. We don’t follow the secular model of electing leaders. Elections do what we see them do in America, and every other country that has a democracy. They bring chaos, opposition research, lobbying for a candidate, and more. People will argue that “I want this candidate” or “I want that candidate.” Some will say a certain number of women or men need to be elected, or certain generations need to be represented. This is at times the will of the people, but even so, we are not interested in the will of the people. We want the will of God.

The will of God has a way of manifesting itself in the sense that God calls, according to the Bible. God choses and God appoints. Can you imagine what would have happened if they would have held an election to know who should lead the children of Israel out of Egypt’s bondage? I can guarantee that Moses would not have won. Moses hadn’t been in Egypt for decades. When Moses came, they must have said, “Who? Who is Moses?” He grew up in the palace for forty years, then spent forty years on the back side of the desert, and showed up at age eighty because God called him to do so. God had a way of confirming that he was the appointed man. Even in the New Testament, we see that God called, chose, and appointed the twelve, the seventy, and in the Book of Acts, the seven who waited on tables. It is the Biblical order, which is distinguished from the secular order.

Constitutions are rarely needed and seldom even referred to. Nevertheless, they become necessary at times. I like what James Madison said, who was a primary writer of the United States Constitution. He said, “If men were angels, no government would be necessary.”[1] He recognized that men were not angels. What he didn’t recognize, was that some angels rebelled. Even in the Apostolic Faith Church, men are not angels, and neither are women. A church constitution protects us legally from those who would be devious, and we want to protect the saints of God who are truly Apostolic Faith and have paid tithes and offerings. Unfortunately, we must have the legal means to combat legal matters that might be used against us. This is a different matter than taking a brother to court, by the way. We are not talking about that. We are talking about when someone takes us to the law. We are not equipped to know the laws in different areas, and even when we do, we are not equipped to know how to apply them. We don’t stack up well against high-powered attorneys. So, we have no choice but to legally protect ourselves.

We issue ministerial credentials from Portland, and a few years ago, we had them issued in a manner where they all expire after five years to be renewed at the discretion of the local leaders in communication with Portland. The credentials that have been issued in the last few years, were issued in a manner where they expire at the end of 2020. This means that a year from now, we will be conferring with the leaders in different locations about ministers bearing certificates ready to expire. Then we will be issuing new ones that expire at the end of 2025.

6: How do we handle a situation where misconduct that occurred twenty or thirty years ago comes to light today?

The next question relates to handling a situation where misconduct—by any church attendee—occurred twenty to thirty years ago comes to light today. Whether thirty years or three days ago, we take the same approach in handling allegations of misconduct or impropriety. There is a protocol to follow. On our website, we have a page called “Safety,” which is easily accessed by anyone in the world. It includes our Safety and Security Manual and Volunteer Handbook, as well as procedure guidelines, safety training information, and related forms. These items address discrimination, harassment, exploitation, intimidation, abuse of power, and other types of misconduct, and how to report such things. Additionally, anyone employed by the church, has an Employee Handbook that includes all those things and information on retaliation. It speaks of the responsibility of the church and the manner in which allegations are to be addressed.

Where it is clear that there is a victim who has been violated, we have a zero-tolerance policy. We exercised that as recently as last Monday. A former attendee wanted to come to the Midsummer Concert. The background is that there was evidence of inappropriate communication between this person and a minor. The parents brought this to our attention, and we approached the perpetrator who confessed it was true. He had to because there was evidence. With tears, he repented and promised never to repeat that behavior. We conferred with the parents of the vulnerable one who he had communicated with against parental permission. They agreed that this person could continue attending. We suggested that we impose a thirty foot barrier and told this individual they were not to come within thirty feet of the minor and there was to be no further communication. This was all agreed to and that was the end of the story—for a while. Then it happened again. That was it. Our reaction was, “You’re done. You’re done. You can be saved somewhere, but it will not be in the Apostolic Faith Church. You are not allowed to attend here again.” That is called a zero-tolerance policy even though rehabilitation was offered, and opportunity was given to have some sort of redemption. We are more concerned for the offended than we are for the offender.

“Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.  Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality” (1 Timothy 5:19-21).

Beware that false allegations can occur, and they do at times. Where there are no witnesses, and a single allegation that is denied, it can be challenging to discern the truth. We are to follow Biblical guidelines and church protocol and pray for the truth to emerge. To minimize the risk of false allegations, and those of us in the ministry have heard this from the beginning—I heard it from Brother Loyce Carver probably during my first ministers’ meeting in 1978—never put yourself in a position whereby you could later be accused. Never be in a room alone with a woman other than your wife. You just simply let common sense prevail.

Most often where a predator exists, there is more than one victim. There is another woman exploited, another child abused, or another case of a person in a position of power taking advantage of a wealthy elderly woman. Churches are known to harbor offenders under a flawed policy of forgive and forget. This allows perpetrators to escape consequences and offend again, or by their mere presence, intimidate those who they previously victimized. Back to the case I cited a moment ago, if the parents had said they didn’t want that person around, that person would not have been around after the first episode. We forgive offences, but with some offenses, we dare not forget. God forgives, but He doesn’t have a memory problem. He must remember our offences in order to choose to remember them against us no more. If God were to forget that we sinned, He might forget that we got saved. We should not say that God forgives and forgets—or that He throws our sins in a sea of His forgetfulness. That is not even Scriptural. If a person repents, God will not hold them accountable for those sins on the Day of Judgment, nor will we harbor ill will against someone who has offended us. However, the beauty of forgiveness is that we remember, yet don’t hold it against that person.

Forgiveness and reconciliation to God does not allow one to escape the consequences of bad behavior. My brother, Gary, was in the Navy and didn’t get saved until he was around the age of thirty or so. While in the Navy, he tattooed himself very visibly. When he got up from a prayer meeting a saved person, that tattoo was still there. That is called having consequences. He died several years ago now, but he would tell his grandchildren, “See this? Don’t do it.” This is more than an Apostolic Faith standard. The Bible speaks about cutting and marking our bodies, so it is a Bible standard.

The human race can be forgiven, but still suffers the consequences of the Original Sin. Redemption was offered, the Blood was shed, but we still have thistles, and ladies bear children in pain. That is called having consequences. Galatians 6:7 says, “Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.” They that sow to the flesh, shall reap of the flesh, and they that sow to the Spirit shall reap of the Spirit.

The consequences of sinning vary widely. We would not appoint a former bank robber as treasurer of the church. We might let him usher, unless while he was robbing the bank, he put a gun in the face of a teller who attends our church and feels threatened by his presence. This is where the dynamics of the background dictate different responses. We are more concerned about the consequences perpetrators have imposed on the victims than the consequences they have brought upon themselves. Think about it; some victims are scarred for life. Don’t weep for the perpetrator. We are not going to re-victimize people, and we can’t be cowards.

7: Should a young, unmarried person be asked to preach the Gospel?

8: Should a divorcee be asked to preach the Gospel?

9: Should one who has an uncooperative spouse or openly rebellious and defiant children be asked to preach the Gospel?

10: Should a minister who has filed for bankruptcy, mismanaged personal or church finances, or otherwise betrayed trust continue to preach the Gospel?

The next four questions will be addressed together. They all relate to who should be asked to preach the Gospel, or who should be expected to continue to preach the Gospel. Many situations need to be addressed on a case-by-case basis. However, we can’t ignore what Paul told Timothy and Titus. Paul established the criteria for appointing leaders.

“A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well” (1 Timothy 3:2-12).

“For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers” (Titus 1:5-9).

Some things are clear: marriage, family, the home, and personal life must all be in order. They are not to be compartmentalized. We cannot be one person at the pulpit and another person at home. Actually, some try, but it does not work; it can’t be sustained. We cannot put a married preacher in a position where he or she is forced to choose between the ministry and reconciliation of the marriage. Some might be more zealous to preach than they are for their marriage. As a church we can’t be responsible for that. Nor can we facilitate one who has a diminished view of the criteria that God has established. Granted, sometimes problems become evident after one has already entered the ministry. Responses become more challenging in those situations. That is why we should ask questions first, before one is invited into the ministry. It is important to remember that where criteria is lacking, the call does not exist. Not everyone who feels they are called to preach the Gospel is called. We have to look first at the criteria, and there are plenty of Scriptural sources for that.

11: How can we effectively nourish the saints in words of faith and good doctrine?

I want to encourage the use of our Daybreak and Discovery Bible study program. Timothy was encouraged by Paul to put the saints in remembrance of sound doctrine.

“If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained” (1 Timothy 4:6).

“Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee” (1 Timothy 4:16).

This includes more than the seventeen doctrines that are listed in every Apostolic Faith magazine. Those were listed at the beginning of this work and are core Bible doctrines. However, Bible doctrine is not limited to those few teachings. We have so many sound Scriptural teachings that we can look back to over the years and want to adhere to. Some try to compartmentalize that, distinguishing between standards and doctrine. I don’t think the distinction that some claim to make even exists. I think of the standards that were elevated in the Old Testament times. The twelve tribes knew where to gather by the ensign that was lifted up. The sound teachings—“doctrine” and “teachings” being synonymous—are the standard under which we gather.

We have a lot of topical material that has been put together over the years that remains very, very valuable. The new material, Daybreak and Discovery, which is 75-80 percent complete, is textually oriented, rather than topically. The fact that during camp meeting we have had Sunday school lessons on Samuel, Saul, and David, is not to suggest that the material is topical. It just so happens that textually, as we flow through the Book of first Samuel, that we have been studying during this three-week period, that text covers those three characters, so it ends up being somewhat topical. You will notice if you follow—and I am sure that you have all followed Daybreak each day—that the text is there. The Bible reading is there. But it is more than a devotional. It is more than a Bible reading program. That is where it starts, but it is a Bible study program. It is an Apostolic Faith commentary rooted in the Wesleyan view of holiness.

Most other material available in the world today is Calvinistic in nature, which presumes that one should expect and accept occasional failure or relapses into sin. Sometimes that view is stated subtly, but there are certain buzz words in Calvinism that alert one. For instance, they will say, “We are saved by grace alone.” That word “alone” infers there is nothing we need to do. In that view, we hardly need to repent, because to repent suggests works. Are you going to be responsible for teaching a Calvinistic view? That is why we do not want to use any other material than Apostolic Faith material in our church settings.

A good teacher will be able to adapt the Apostolic Faith materials—Daybreak, Discovery, Search, and Answer, etc.—to the age, the gender, the makeup of their class. Study the Word. I am convinced that if we read the Bible through cover to cover, in a three-year period, we will capture the essence of what it means to live holy and to live separate from the world.

We want to inspire God’s people to read the Bible; it is our source of authority. The Daybreak and Discovery curriculum are not our authority, or anything I say here today, or anything that has been printed in our history. Things spoken extemporaneously where off-the-cuff comments are made, and then printed, are not the authority. Sometimes these things take on almost a greater authority than the Bible itself. These are not greater. We want to point people to the Word of God.

Every quarter of Daybreak and Discovery is an exciting opportunity. I really feel that at the end of thirteen weeks of study, you will be more equipped to minister, and you will have a greater understanding of these books of the Bible than you did at the beginning. There is nothing better than the Word of God. I have always loved 1 Samuel 3:21 where the Lord revealed Himself to Samuel in Shiloh by the Word of the Lord. He still does that.

^“And the Lord appeared again in Shiloh: for the Lord revealed himself to Samuel in Shiloh by the word of the Lord” (1 Samuel 3:21).

12: Is it okay to operate outside the box?

I don’t know about this box thing. Aren’t you simply moving from one-sized box into something slightly bigger? It comes across condescending as if, “You are all confined to a certain thought process, but I have a broader view wiser than you.” It is like “putting God in a box.” What I fear is that it speaks in a condescending manner of the way things are being done. I like the way things are done. That could be a fault of mine, but I think there is a certain amount of stability in predictability. It is not necessarily a bad thing. God has a way of inserting variety in a positive way when we are not intending it to come. We want to stick to the routine of our services, from meeting in the prayer beforehand to meeting at the altar afterward. Every component in between must lead to that moment of an invitation to prayer. We want to be consistent in our mode of operation around the world, so that anyone who steps into the church at our location from another location will feel at home and comfortable. In new churches, we want to allow space for prayer rooms and altars if finances will allow. If finances don’t allow for a separate room, then pray in the sanctuary, but we never want to lose the idea of prayer before and after the services. It is not good enough to leave space for prayer and altars, we must use them.

It is awkward if one Apostolic Faith church operates in a different manner than the others around the world.

Our preaching approach should be in line with our peers. In simple terms: read the text, provide the context, illustrate it, explain how to apply it, and invite the people to pray. The most effective sermon is one that after you are finished, everyone knows what you preached on.

With respect to illustrations, Spurgeon said that illustrations are like the windows of a house that let the light in.[2] A sermon might be coming across dry, but then you give an illustration and suddenly it lets the light in and the audience connects. I love what George Davis wrote in his biography of D.L. Moody, The Man and His Mission. He wrote, “His favorite instrument of speech was the story; as was the case also with his Master. He did not push the mind; he illuminated the heart. He was shrewd enough to see that not one man in a thousand ever changed his opinion because of reason or logic . . .” “With his naïve stories, he slipped around behind the stubborn intellect, flanked the lines of doubt and occupied the heart. He was a great general. When you capture a man’s heart, his intellect comes in next day and surrenders.”[3] In our generation I think Brother Dick Taylor was an example of one who was extraordinarily effective in using illustrations to capture the hearts of those who were in attendance.

As far as length of sermons, someone told me last week that at times we are able to cram ten minutes of content into thirty minutes. The point being that it makes no sense to continue preaching after your audience has stopped listening. You might as well preach to the wind; it is just as effective. It is better to leave the audience hoping that you will continue rather than wondering why you are continuing. When I was first saved, Brother Allen Crabtree was in his twilight years. He would come down from Seattle for a few days, and when he would get up to preach, his sermons would be so short. I was a new convert and I learned right away that he didn’t preach very long. I would sit there thinking, “I hope he keeps going, I hope he keeps going.” That is better than having people think, “I hope he stops, I hope he stops.” I firmly believe that the clock is our friend. If we mind it, we can be more effective in crystalizing what we feel God has given us to say, and to say it efficiently and therefore more effectively. Many words do not make up for a lack of content.

We must immerse ourselves in Bible study. I like what John MacArthur said in a recent blog. He wrote, “Despite what current trends would have us believe, a godly pastor can be ignorant about pop culture and the latest internet memes. He can be ignorant about psychology and sociology. He doesn’t need to be an expert on world events, social movements, or leadership strategies. Being well versed in movies, music, and sports isn’t part of the job description either, and it’s often a hindrance to the actual work of ministry. Rather, a pastor must be an expert in the Bible.”[4]

I have quoted a few things for three reasons. First, I like the way these thoughts were expressed. I wish I would have thought of expressing them that way myself. That I didn’t think of them, leads me to the second point, which is that we must cite our sources. If you use an illustration that you have gleaned from the internet or a book that you have, you must cite it. Keep in mind that others have that same book or have read that same source. They know that you are purloining as the Bible calls it. You are stealing a thought that belongs to someone else, and your credibility is in trouble. Thirdly, I quoted these things to say that in our private study we may read material by those of a different theological persuasion than our own. We sift through that material in our private study. One of the people I quoted is very much Calvinistic. I have read his material, and love some of it, and am in dismay at other of it. I wonder how a man so academic and so brilliant can excuse sin as if Christians sin every day in thought, word, and deed, and can’t have victory. I am sure that he has victory. Some of it may just be semantics.

By what I just quoted, I am not suggesting that we should be ignorant of culture, common sense, or logic. I am persuaded by logic even if Moody wasn’t. I think he was, though—I have read some of his sermons. The point is that it quenches the spirit of a meeting for a preacher to from the pulpit bring up politics, the names of movie stars, movies, athletes, teams, television shows, what is happening in social media, or even current events like natural disasters. We don’t want to hear about those things in our meetings. We want to hear the Word of the Lord. Let’s adhere to the way it has been done all of these years, not for tradition’s sake, but because it works; it brings stability.

“Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord” (1 Corinthians 15:58).

13: How do we handle it when a woman who otherwise qualifies to be in the work is married to one who insists she wear a ring?

What do we do when a husband does not allow his wife to conform to Apostolic Faith ways? I think Peter addressed that. In summary, it is better for the wife to win the husband than for her to participate in the work. We cannot compartmentalize these things.

“Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear” (1 Peter 3:1-2).

For those who question our no-ring policy, I have heard all points of view pro and con. I have used some of the pro arguments myself. Really these arguments do not change anyone’s mind. Sometimes we are asked what the Scriptural support for not wearing a wedding ring is. First, where is the Scriptural support for wearing a wedding ring? It does not exist. I believe there is Scriptural support for not wearing a wedding ring.

Most cultures of the world expect that one would wear a wedding ring, but that is not New Testament culture. Because history has proven that arguments do not change people’s minds, I believe the best response is that to be part of any team, group, club, government agency, employment, or church, criteria or qualifications are stipulated. Our criteria for participation in the work includes not wearing rings, whether it be at church or away from church. For those who choose not to adhere to that criterion, that is fine. We don’t claim it is needed to be saved or to make Heaven. We simply state that this is who we are, this is what we ask, and we don’t indict or condemn those who have different criteria for where they attend church.

We don’t condemn those who do come to our church and don’t follow the criteria. We have many who come to our church in Portland who would not meet the criteria for participation in the work and love our church. Some of them have probably not even noticed. We are not fighting them, nor are they objecting to our policy. We don’t take it to the Sunday morning pulpit. It is a qualification for participation in our work, but it is not the primary component of who we are. We want people to be saved, so don’t take what I have just said and blast it abroad on Sunday morning, saying “Brother Darrel said it.”

Every group draws a line somewhere. Some of you live in a community where you have to adhere to ordinances of the community in order to live there. Things like how your yard is landscaped and what you plant. Nobody objects to that. If they don’t like the rules, they simply go to a different community. We are not suggesting that anyone go to a different church. People are welcome at our church. We have one sister who early on was dressed up, painted up, and jeweled up. She wanted to sing in our choir. I said, “Well, just keep coming and learn what we are all about.” She has toned things down a little since then and has not asked to sing in the choir again. Don’t indict people who have a different view or choose not to participate in the work.

This is another value in reading the Bible through. When people capture the spirit of the Bible, it captures their hearts.

14: Do young men and young ladies need our permission to notice one another?  

Here is where I may not make any friends, but nobody said I have to win a popularity contest. I recognize that we are from different cultures. I asked one from a different culture, “How did it work for you? Did you go to your pastor and get permission to marry?” She chuckled, confessing that she didn’t.

 We cannot demand a standard of others that we did not live up to ourselves. Even if you did get permission from someone to marry, we would not require that of others. This organization that we are part of is global. Also, what worked thirty or fifty years ago, if it was not consistent with the Word of God, cannot be sustained, nor should it. The ministry is not to assume the parental role. I had a situation where I felt like a minister was trying to assume that role with my children when they were teenagers. I let it be known that was not that person’s business; I was the parent.

“I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn” (1 Corinthians 7:8-9).

With respect to marriage, Paul allowed for it even if his preference was otherwise. There is no evidence that the Apostles demanded that couples have church permission to marry. He said, “Let them marry.” He did not say, “Let them marry after getting my permission.” Furthermore, that verse is not to suggest that passion is a good reason to get married. The Bible does not give the ministry license to control the personal lives of the people who attend our church. We gain nothing by withholding our blessing from a couple who wants to marry if we don’t have good reason.

Does this mean that we must give our blessing to everyone who wants to marry? No. If a couple comes to you saying they want to marry, and you are not comfortable with the union, you can tell them why, but you need to have a good reason. I have been asked to officiate a few weddings where I declined and stated why I was not comfortable with it. I dare say there are some who would thank me today for the fact that I did so.

We will not officiate a wedding if we have not had opportunity to meet with the couple several times over a period of some months. There are questions that we ask a couple to consider together. I want to hear the answers to such questions as, “How do your parents feel about this?” If I find that the parents disapprove, I want to know why. If the objection is because one of the two is from a different country or doesn’t have a doctorate or is an engineer instead of an architect, that is not reasonable. Parents need to be careful, especially if the couple is going to marry anyway. By their disapproval from flawed reasoning, they could jeopardize their relationship with their future in-law—and grandchildren if God provides. Pastors need to be careful as well. We take a risk in saying we are not comfortable, so we must do it delicately and gently.

When I present questions to a couple, I give them a book and ask them to read it together. The book says the questions should be answered in front of a minister. However, Genesis 2:24 suggests otherwise.

“Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh” (Genesis 2:24).

I ask couples to answer the questions outside of my presence. The verse says that a man shall leave father and mother and cleave unto his wife and be one flesh. I think pastors and ministers fall behind fathers and mothers in the order of things. We are not to be inside anyone’s marriage. There are a number of couples in here whose weddings I have officiated, and they heard me ask, “How many children do you want to have? I want you to talk about that together.” Sometimes I tease and say, “Erik wants ten children. Allison, how many do you want?”

I want couples to talk about issues that will come up in a marriage. I want them to ask each other, “Where will you work? Do you want children? How soon and how many?” They need to decide who will manage the finances, where they will spend the next Christmas, what relationship they will have with each set of in-laws. They have all heard me ask this question, “Is there anything in your past that your future spouse should know about you that they don’t already know?” I tell them not to answer in front of me, but to talk about these things privately.

One question that developed in the last few years is, “Have you discussed relationships you have had in the past?” Do couples want to talk about these things now or after they have been married for five years? Another question typically for the groom, not to be answered in front of me, is “Have you engaged in pornography?” and if so, “To what extent?” Couples need to talk about it before marrying. These things need to be discussed.

If asked to officiate a wedding of which I do not approve, how should I respond?

This question came up recently: Are we allowed to officiate a wedding outside the Apostolic Faith Church? In other words, in another church or a park or a reception area of a hotel. The answer is yes. But if asked to officiate, we also have license then to stipulate conditions. Even away from our church, we will not participate in a ring ceremony wedding. Also, weddings are not license for immodesty, nor are receptions. We don’t want to be embarrassed by what the couple wears or the music that is played. If ever I think that is at risk, I will bring it up with the couple. Even in our own church at times there have been situations that make us cringe, despite the best efforts of our wonderful wedding coordinators. I have been asked on the wedding day, “What should we do about this?” Well, it’s the wedding day. Are we going to ruin a bride’s wedding day? No, we are held hostage at that point, so we learn from those experiences and try not to let it happen again.

If a couple chooses not to comply with Apostolic Faith policy away from our church, we should decline to officiate. However, we can still attend. Politely decline.

How involved should the minister (or spouse) be in advising a married couple regarding their intimate lives?

My first response is, “What?” It is none of our business. Second, it is creepy to think that it even would be our business. Genesis 2:24 applies here as well. We are outside the marriage. If there is any inquiry made, you can direct the couple to Hebrews 13:4.

“Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge” (Hebrews 13:4).

Notice how little the Bible speaks to this subject? We should emulate that. We must respect the privacy of our parishioners. Pastors or their spouses are not to meddle in the middle of marriages, except our own.      

15: Do children need to be saved to participate in regular church services?

We don’t hold six-year-olds, or eight- or ten- or maybe even twelve-year-olds, to the same standard as a teen. We may on occasion include preteen children in a service, but we don’t then turn such a service or a portion of it into Children’s Church. That is what Sunday school is for. That is what Children’s Church is for. It is beneficial at times to include children in selected areas; it helps them to practice or prepare for when they are older.

“At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them” (Matthew 18:1-2).

Jesus used the children who were present to teach the adults, but He did not reduce his teachings to accommodate those children. Children nevertheless are impacted by meetings they attend from a young age. Our services target the adults, but the children still respond.  

16: When selecting a children’s or adult program for Christmas or Easter, is it acceptable to use one that employs levity?

A script that is irreverent is offensive. There is nothing funny about Calvary or about the Son of God being born in a manger. Let’s not trivialize or desecrate the Gospel message by presenting it in an irreverent manner. When children are unintentionally funny simply because they are children, it is endearing. It is not endearing when they are obnoxious. The Bible accounts are sacred, and we must treat them so.

17: May we use contemporary Christian music in our services?

Brother Gary Riler was asked this very question two months ago, and he gave me permission to read his response. Time won’t allow me to do so, but the essence of it was to first study the lyrics and determine what the message is, or even if there is a message. Second, to determine if the focus of the song is on the worshiper or on the One being worshiped. I am reminded of the old Country and Western songs that my mother used to sing before she was saved. Typical lyrics were, “I’m so blue, I’m so broke, I’m so lonesome, I just want to die.” The focus was on “I.” It is narcissistic. Notice the words. Third, notice the theology. We are of a Wesleyan holiness persuasion. Just as much of the study materials available today in study Bibles is Calvinistic, so is recent music. It is written this way because many have been brought up under Calvinistic views. Brother Gary also wrote that we do not incorporate any amplified instruments other than a keyboard in our regular services.

Now I will quickly read a few of my own notes. We have no interest in emulating pop or rock music in our services. We are not performers, and we are not at a ball game or a pep rally. We do not need our music, song leaders, or preachers to manipulate the emotions of the audience in an attempt to manufacture what only God can bring. Brother Carver said many times that we do not work up the Spirit, we pray down the Spirit. This doesn’t mean that our services should have the feel of a morgue. However, the Spirit of God is easily quenched, so we want to approach Him carefully and reverently in our services. As you have heard me say before, I would rather err to the side of caution than to the side of recklessness.

“. . . And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God” (Exodus 3:6).

“And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God” (Judges 13:22).

“Then said I, Woe is me!” (Isaiah 6:5)

“And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid” (Matthew 17:6).

“And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead” (Revelation 1:17).

Notice that when God revealed Himself to Moses, to Gideon’s parents, to Isaiah, to Peter, James, and John on the Mount of Transfiguration, and to John the Revelator when he came face to face with a glorified Christ, there was great humility and a sense of awe when these had an encounter with God. That is what we pray will take place. Even on the day of Pentecost when we might think there was something different than that sense of awe, we read that sinners were pricked in their hearts and fear came upon every soul. If you allow percussion and amplified instruments to take over your music program, they will dominate in a fashion that will give visiting Apostolic Faith saints from other locations pause. If that is where you are, seek to restrain and minimize it while developing and integrating other components of an orchestra into your music program. If you are not there, don’t go there.

18: To what extent can ministers demand respect?

To demand respect of subordinates is evidence that we have not earned respect, and therefore do not deserve it. Demanding respect is not succeeding in acquiring it. Earning respect makes demanding it unnecessary. Success is when we inspire teamwork and support. Demanding is evidence of our lack of success. It is true that God has an order, but we are peers. We are all laborers together. We are colleagues, and we need to treat each other that way.

“Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock” (1 Peter 5:2-3).

The younger generation wants to honor their elders, but won’t when we weaponize our authority, using the Gospel or our position as a club. Also, don’t use, “Brother Darrel said.” Why would you? This does not impress anyone. When we do these things, we leave the youth discouraged rather than inspired. We are not to Lord over the saints. We are to feed the flock of God. Don’t tell them, show them.

Shaming doesn’t work either. Shaming a Sunday morning audience for failing to attend on Sunday evenings or on weeknights does not succeed in getting them to do so. On the contrary, it makes it less likely that they will return on the next Sunday morning. Also, embarrassing those who lack their deeper experiences isn’t helpful. It makes it less likely that they will pray through because we have left them discouraged. We must strive to inspire. You heard Ann McCarville testify in a recent meeting that she came to a point in her life where she wanted to draw closer to God. While praying, she found herself in a place where she realized that the Lord wanted to baptize her. She was not seeking for that experience, but she was seeking God. That is really what we want to encourage people to do. We want to encourage people to seek God and to draw closer to Him. If they do this, the experience will come. When we hold these experiences over people’s heads, the experiences become mountains too high to climb.

We cannot ignore cultural or generational distinctions as far as what holiness looks like or how Bible teachings are applied. We want modesty and humility, and we cringe when we see it lacking. However, when we sincerely appreciate the positive in people who attend our church services, rather than be critical of the fact that they are works in progress, we lose ground. They view us as works in progress as well, and rightly so. Be appreciative of the fact that they are here.

I walked by a table a couple of days ago on the campground where some of our young people were playing a card game using gambling cards, and I cringed. They also had a game of Uno there and some other games as well. The person I was walking with commented that at least they didn’t have a crack pipe. That is true, and I appreciate that. I also appreciate that they are here. Nevertheless, I texted the one who was playing and said, “Hey, if you find yourself able to discourage the use of playing cards, do so.” This person is a high-quality individual who was probably never taught this. Some might ask what the difference is between gambling cards and Uno cards, because they are the same size, etc. The difference is that those other cards are used in Las Vegas for gambling. I don’t think they play Uno in Las Vegas gambling establishments. It is true, this won’t send anyone to Hell, but I would rather not see this on the campground.  

Not long ago, we had one person being served by another, and the one being served jerked up the shirt of the one serving, because she felt they were showing too much skin. This was unexpected and shocked the server. I should say. For one thing, keep your hands off of other people. Which person’s error was more severe—the sister who was doing the correcting or the innocent volunteer who was serving? The volunteer was understanding in the matter and extended grace. I am not so sure about the one who did the correcting. Holiness principles cover behavior more than appearance.

19: Is it okay to have fundraising campaigns?

Anybody who lives in Portland knows that I do not like the term “fundraising,” because I feel that it teaches the saints a bad lesson. God’s method of finance is tithes and offerings. If we were to hold fundraising bake sales, then why not allow bingo games and raffle tickets? We would not do that.

“Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come” (1 Corinthians 16:2).

I am not suggesting that you cannot have a church garage sale or even an auction to raise money for youth camp, but do not call it a fundraiser. Change the title so you are not teaching a bad lesson. Teach that it is valuable for the young people to earn their way to youth camp to have a work ethic. Have the kids bake the cakes and conduct the auction. Maybe this is semantics, but I don’t think it is just that. Let it be that you are helping the children to earn their way to youth camp. If you have a church garage sale and are going to use the funds to buy carpet for the church basement, don’t call it a fundraiser. The purpose of a garage sale is to get rid of junk, not raise funds. You can say that the proceeds will be used to purchase carpet. We do not pass a collection plate, and we do not solicit funds.        

20: When cultures unite in the Lord, what outcome can we expect?

We can expect our sweet fellowship to be good and pleasant. We can expect the Spirit of God to flow without limits through our services like the ointment that was poured on Aaron’s head. We can expect the Lord to command His blessing in a manner where the sick are healed, sinners are saved, and everyone experiences God at a deeper level. We can expect what happens at this camp meeting to impact the entire world for the Lord.