Meeting Transcripts

This Enduring Fellowship

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (for the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) that which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ” (1 John 1:1-3)

Introduction

This is a workers’ and ministers’ meeting, so we will cover material that is not typically covered in a church setting. By the way, you won’t hear anything new today. What you will hear is what the generation before me conveyed to me, which is what the generation before them conveyed to them.

Pointing to God

I have already demonstrated one example of the material that will be covered today, which is that ministers have been taught to open a sermon by reading the text. There is a reason for that. They read the text first because they come not to bring their own word, but God’s Word. I would like to illustrate this point by telling you how I could have opened today. The Portland congregation will tell you that I do not open with this kind of a comment, “Have you seen Oscar yet?” Or “Did you know it’s going to get hot today?” Or “How is your 401k, if you have one?” Where does your mind go when I ask those questions? It does not go to where we intend it to go. So, we read the text first.

The Word is what gives us license to stand at the pulpit. We want to draw immediate attention to God’s Word rather than elsewhere. We do not want to leave you wondering, Why is he going there? The same principle is applied to testifying, singing, and song leading. The Heart of the Yale Lectures, which we ministers studied a year or two ago, states, “The best style attracts the least attention to itself,” and goes on to remind us that the goal is not to leave the audience saying, “Wow, what a preacher!” The goal is to leave the audience saying, “Wow, what a God!”

When we testify, we don’t want to spend more time on the diagnosis than on the deliverance. Two minutes is plenty of time to declare the victory that God gives. We appreciate excellence when we see it in our vocalists, and don’t ignore that at all, but we appreciate when excellence also conveys the message of the Gospel. Inspiration will speak. That’s true of God’s Word and true of testimonies. It’s true of the words of songs. We do not want to get ourselves in the way of God’s message. We do not want to trivialize the Gospel message by being too casual or too intentionally funny in our presentation. We may be unintentionally so at times, but this is serious business. Souls are at stake. So we want to draw attention to God. We can be very unimpressive, but God is very impressive and does wonderful things.

Rooted in Doctrine

Years ago, a client and his partner came into my office having just established a business. Part of the name of the business contained the Greek word koinonia, so I asked the client, “What does that mean?” The answer was “fellowship.” That business partnership was not a fellowship, though. It ended up dissolving as most partnerships do, which is on terms that the partners never intended at the beginning. That is why, at the beginning of this partnership, a good lawyer would have told them, “You need a buy/sell agreement while you’re getting along, because soon you won’t be getting along, and you’ll need to know how to dissolve the partnership.” So, fellowship is more than a business partnership.

The world today loves the word “community.” I do understand the value of collaboration, consensus building, and the fact that we live in a community. But I am weary of the term because the foundation of community is compromise and tolerance. These things certainly have their place, but fellowship runs much deeper than community.

John’s fellowship was based upon what he had seen, heard, and experienced. He declared these things to those who would read them because he wanted them to have the opportunity to experience this fellowship. The ecumenical movement, for the sake of the community, teaches not to preach doctrine because doctrine is divisive. To me, doctrine brings unity because doctrine provides the basis for koinonia, for fellowship. Fellowship is more than potlucks—it is unity rooted in the same understanding and shared experiences of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Acts 2:41-42 states, “And the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.” They were in unity. I guess you could say that unity in the community equals something called fellowship. We love fellowship.

Organized

Fellowship includes order. We read in Acts 6 that the apostles picked seven men from among them who were of honest report to address the matter of waiting on tables. Organizing began early in the Church. Some people want to be independent of organization, which really means they want to be independent of authority. Authority existed in the Bible. In Titus 1:5, Paul addressed the reason for which Titus was left in Crete. He said, “That thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting.” There were things lacking, so for the purpose of maintaining fellowship, Titus was left in Crete to address those matters. In I Timothy 3:14-15, Paul wrote to Timothy, “These things write I unto thee hoping to come unto thee shortly. But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God.” Those deemed most qualified to lead the Church were appointed and ordained so that their fellowship could be maximized.

We do not impose our practices on other Christians or organizations, nor would we expect them to impose their practices upon us. We cast no judgment upon those who do things differently than we do, whether it is an organization or whether it is an individual. We support the right of each individual to make his own decisions, even if we feel those decisions are not what is best. We will not stand before God with them. They will stand before God alone. So we support each person’s right to make a decision, even if we do not support the decision. We do not speak unkindly of other organizations. We gain nothing by casting ill light on others. My little sister, who you have heard about over the years, was first saved through an organization different than the Apostolic Faith Church. God does not use only the Apostolic Faith. Make no mistake, though, God has called us to be Apostolic Faith. We declare what we have seen, heard, and experienced because we want to maximize the opportunity to have fellowship together.

Standing for Holiness

I told you yesterday that I would read the comments made to the choir and orchestra platform workers last Saturday in addressing matters that pertain to fellowship, so I will read that now. Consider the setting—across the street in the church, the platform was full of the same individuals that you saw presenting the concert on Monday night:

“It’s a privilege to stand before such an illustrious group, and I really do feel that way about you. I appreciate all of you coming to camp meeting from out of town and we appreciate all the Portlanders who come to camp meeting as well. Thank you very much. I may read from some prepared notes because I think it is more efficient than adlibbing. I want to briefly cover things before we go into these meetings. We want to remember that we are not only representing our church, but we are, in fact, representing the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And in our case, we are representing the Latter Rain Gospel. It should not matter that we are being viewed by an internet audience on the cameras, because we do not do what we do because of our audience, but because we are Christians. And, in fact, the practices that we have or feel are important to us are because we stand for holiness, not just because we are in the work. What we do applies to all Christians who come to our church. Obviously, we are not casting judgment on Christians who do not come to our church.”

I should have added that we do not cast judgment on Christians who do come to our church.

On cell phones in church

Then I addressed the matter of cell phones:

“We do not want to use our cell phones during church. That would include texting or checking scores of ballgames. Sometime back, someone in the audience was clearly texting throughout a Sunday morning meeting. What people in the audience don’t know is that there is an eye in the sky in Portland, [and I wasn’t speaking of God here]. During meetings, whomever is in the upstairs sound booth looks down over the audience and sees the lit-up screens of all those who are using their cell phones. A person upstairs with a camera was so curious about what that one person in particular was doing that he couldn’t resist learning through his zoom lens who was being texted by that person. He knew and mentioned it to someone who mentioned it to me. So I not only know the name of the person who was doing the texting, but also the one who was being texted. And if I pried, I could probably find out what was being said. While that level of disinterest has not occurred on the platform, it does not represent the Gospel well if we appear restless, yawning, conversing, slouching, or chewing gum during meeting. Those things send the signal that we are bored with what we are doing.”

On modesty

“We want to look our best for our audience and for God, so let’s be alert and supportive. Men and women alike need to sit with their knees together. Be aware of your attire and deportment. Men, please wear a suit and tie and be neat in your overall appearance. Ladies, please be mindful of the length of your dress, your neckline, and refrain from wearing capped or extremely short sleeves.

“On the subject of modesty versus immodesty, here are some Biblical measuring perspectives that might inspire you. Jeremiah speaks of a measure of four fingers. Moses spoke of a border of a garment as being a handbreadth, a little more than four fingers. Goliath of Gath was in height six cubits and a span. A span is half a cubit or three palms. I am four cubits tall. At the risk of being specific, I really don’t think you want to see a handbreadth of my chest or of my thigh and I really don’t want to see that much of you, either. We do become familiar with one another over the years, but there are limits. If we have to measure, or pull, or stretch our clothing to cover, it’s too close to revealing what should be covered. God gave Adam and Eve clothing for a covering. The fashion industry today wants to uncover what God wants covered.”

I will add that approval was not given for revealing a handbreadth. That’s not what I said. What I told them was that they did not want to see that much of me and I did not want to see that much of them. It is not uncommon for me to be misquoted. Someone could have said to someone else afterwards, “I’m okay, it’s just a handbreadth.” Well, the problem is that some begin the handbreadth from their chin and others begin the handbreadth from way further south than the chin, and that’s where we get into problems. To illustrate the fact, I also said, “If it’s so close that it requires measurement, it’s too close. Now if you see me coming, don’t worry about me. What we are trying to get you to do is to keep God’s view in mind. I just love you. You will not see me coming to you and looking sideways and wondering. I may just wonder without looking sideways, but not critically. I’ll just love you. But consider God’s demands, and they are demands, probably more stringent than my own.”

Here is more of what I said:

“The tradition of Bible holiness has been modesty with emphasis on the inward rather than the outward adorning. Paul wrote to Timothy in 1Timothy 2:9 saying, ‘In like manner also, that women adorn [which is to decorate or garnish] themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness, [which conveys the sense of bashfulness or a downcast eye] and sobriety; [which is self-control—levelheadedness, common sense] not with broided hair [gold weaved into braids], or gold, or pearls, [this speaks of jewelry, ornaments] or costly array; but (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.’ Peter put it this way in 1 Peter 3:3, ‘Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning [decorating], of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or putting on of apparel; but let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.’

“It almost humors me to see our holy tradition under attack. The irony of people resisting Bible tradition while embracing secular tradition is not lost on me. We are all following tradition. Some choose godly tradition. Some choose secular tradition. I love our tradition. I am proud of our tradition. I don’t make it a pet peeve, but I notice when people demean tradition. Many who lack modesty do so out of carelessness and not defiance, so extend mercy. We don’t ask a sixteen-year-old to dress like a forty-six-year-old, but we do ask that those who are part of this fellowship present themselves according to the Biblical model of modesty no matter what their age. Remember that high fashion and holy appearance are in conflict. Women cannot dress like celebrities, models, or many female newscasters and present an image of holiness or glorify God. The fashion industry designs to exploit a woman’s sexuality, emphasizing what is provocative, “hot,” or seductive.

“The term “hot” is so degrading to a real lady, and embarrassing to a man. Where I come from, the term means “loose” or “easy.” If the goal is to glorify God, He will help you to be intuitively careful rather than careless. There is something elegant, flattering, attractive, and self-respectful about a woman who dresses modestly. “Modestly” does not mean frumpy or outdated. Your wardrobe need not be boring or lack individuality. We know that you can choose a 2009 holy style because we see you do it. You have shown that a woman can be modest without appearing as if she stepped onto the scene from an earlier generation.

“I offer these comments with some reluctance because you do a terrific job already and hardly need my input. Many of you work long hours faithfully serving in your churches throughout the year, and now are using your vacation time to come here. You sacrifice time and money in your desire to serve God. However, we cannot minimize the impact of one less-than-stellar example. It reflects upon all of us and the Latter Rain Gospel we claim to espouse.

On changing policies

“I have heard it said that when the ministers don’t preach on a subject for a long period of time, it must mean that things have changed. You should assume just the opposite. If we say nothing, nothing has changed. Others claim that if they are not corrected by the ministry, then it must be okay. That’s not accurate either. We will, at times, address matters individually if they go too far, but often we are very cautious to do so because, frankly, those who go too far would often have a hard time handling such correction. So the fact that you observe a poor example doesn’t mean that you have license to follow it, no matter who it is.

“Again, thank you for your faithfulness and cooperation throughout the year. We expect the glory of God to dwell in every heart and in every meeting. May God bless you. I do think you all do a terrific job, but we have, on occasion, seen a bit too much of some. God bless you for being good examples. Thank you for your attentiveness.”

Our History

To understand our fellowship, it’s necessary to examine its roots. The Apostolic Faith Church is rooted in the Azusa Street movement of 1906. If you have not read any of the papers that were published from Los Angeles at that time, you should read them. The Morgans have put together their own account of that history, not representing this church, but still very worthwhile reading. Check with Brother Amos Morgan or his family for information. You can also go to Azusabooks.com and read the material on screen or print it out. 

At Azusa Street, saved and sanctified people sought to receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost. The only way one can capture the sense of destiny and providence that God has laid upon this organization is to read the contemporaneous accounts of that revival. What was recorded there at that time cannot be distorted. It says what it says. It says what happened. It is a fact of history. Efforts have been made to rewrite what happened or to discredit those who came out of that revival, but they cannot change what was written at that time. Those writings described what God was doing there, and the sound Bible doctrine and way of life that was taught there. Many throughout the world search for a church that holds to the Bible truths and principles that were taught there. They want to gain the presence that was manifested there. And here we enjoy it in our day.

The Bible is Our Foundation

I will read a personal exchange, slightly edited to preserve confidentiality. I will not share what was written to me. I will only share what I wrote in reply:

“My commission from God is wrapped up in the declarations of the Bible and the manner in which God gave birth to this work. The Bible itself is our foundation, but that movement provides the framework for what we are today.”

Each Gospel meeting, each program, each Sunday school class, is an exciting possibility and even a challenge to be conquered. Whether well attended or poorly attended, over the years I have viewed them as the blessing I still believe them to be. Let me be counted as one of those who enter each meeting with a shout for the battle, with God’s help. The Gospel way is not for the faint of heart or the casual warrior (if there be such a thing). Never lose the joy you have demonstrated. If it empowered Paul and Silas to sing praises to God during their dark hour in the Philippian jail, it can continually spring from our hearts no matter whether we are surrounded by supportive peers or not.

I have heard that some occasionally refer to us as “playing church,” which only makes me smile. They may be playing, but I am not. This is serious, even if joyful, business. I need God; I need to pray. Each meeting is an opportunity for me to approach my Creator. If nobody else is blessed, I am determined to be, because I am entering into the presence of God.

Our church doctrine predates our church because it is sound Bible doctrine. By the way, as I’ve said it in the past, doctrine could have been translated as “teachings.” Do not get the idea that doctrine is being saved, sanctified, baptized, the Rapture, and marriage for life. Doctrine includes all of that, but doctrine is the teachings of this holy way of life. Our church doctrine predates our church because it is sound Bible doctrine. Even so, some truths were not designed to be seen by the casual reading of the Bible, which is why Paul told Timothy to study. If one studies, there will be no doubts regarding these Bible doctrines and practices.

Regarding church policy, I expect every denomination to have its own policy. God commands that attendees subject themselves willingly, as unto God, to the policy of the church they attend and benefit from. So that, too, becomes an individual matter that every soul must deal with before God. Until they subject themselves, they will frustrate themselves. Some go through their Christian experience frustrated. Others go through joyfully, the result of yielding themselves, not to the church, but to God Who implemented the order they are blessed by.

This is a good way. It is not toilsome; it is not bondage. We do not serve solely out of a sense of duty. We serve joyfully out of a sense of a commission from God. The Bible and the historical account published from Los Angeles are our point of reference.

Those accounts from Los Angeles and other teachings, such as this, do not rise to the level of the Word of God. If you read something that was spoken years ago off the cuff (like I might even do today) do not equate that to the Bible. We are human, so do not get the idea that every word spoken from here has been inspired, because it has not. We do our best, but we are human beings. Our point of reference is the Bible and also the material published from Los Angeles describing those accounts. You do not want your leader to depart from his or her point of reference even in a matter that you personally feel strongly about, because if your leader is willing to depart from his point of reference due to your persuasion this week, he or she might be persuaded to change something you object to next week. Can you imagine if we were driven by the market-driven strategy of today? Someone over here would say, “Brother Lee, we need to do this.” Tomorrow, someone over there would say just the opposite, “Brother Lee, we need to do that,” and we would be blown about like the wind. We have our commission. If you think I am swayed by anything such as that, you do not know me very well, but I have a feeling that by the time we are done, you will know me better.

We are not swayed. If we departed from our point of reference, we would be set adrift, effectively subjecting ourselves to the “itching-ear policy” that Paul warned Timothy about. The consumer-driven strategy may work in marketing where bottom-line results demand shifts, but not for the Latter Rain Gospel. We are not driven by results any more than Noah was when he considered what he should declare in his preaching to the antediluvians. We are driven by our God-given mission, which is to preach and to experience the sound Bible doctrine and way of life of the Latter Rain Gospel.

Beware of False Teachings

We find in the second and third epistles of John that not everyone was interested in the fellowship he wrote about. He laid the foundation. He spoke of sin when he said, “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin” (1 John 3:9). John said, “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God” (1 John 3:10). “He that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil” (1 John 3:7-8). John spoke of deliverance. “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9). The two-fold nature of sin and the two-fold remedy—justification and sanctification—is in that verse.

Not everyone was interested in John’s day. In the third epistle of John, we have the contrast between those in fellowship and one out of fellowship. Gaius, in that first verse, was commended for his steadfastness in the truth and his hospitality. On the other hand, Diotrephes sought preeminence. He wanted to be the leader in his group. He wanted to do it his way, so John felt it incumbent upon him to name this man and to castigate him soundly. As shepherds and guardians of this fellowship, we have a responsibility. We are to be on guard for teachings that are inconsistent with what we have heard from the beginning. The tenth verse of John’s second epistle says, “If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.” We are not open to every whim that comes along. Frankly, we are not open to any of them. Everyone must stand before God on his own, so we are not going to go out of our way and discredit those who ultimately end up discrediting themselves anyway.

Avoid Debate

Here are personal excerpts to another correspondent addressing the question of how much to engage one who wants to debate doctrine and church policy. Here’s what I wrote:

“I think showing disinterest in debate communicates something. It shows disinterest. Any engagement should send a signal that you think debating the matter is a waste of time. We need to make our disinterest clear in order to convey that we love our work just like it is—its teachings, traditions, history, ministry, heritage—the whole package. We don’t have time for those who attempt to undermine us. Those who accommodate debaters quickly lose credibility as well. Our people are very savvy. They know who is on board and who is not.”

Then there was a follow up in the same vein with the same person, so here was the second response. I will add that this correspondence came from a godly person, a solid Apostolic Faith person simply inquiring.

“We don’t want to dignify the unqualified approach of some by making too big a deal of it. Their opinions on this subject and anything else spiritual should be dismissed outright. They would be better served by studying and embracing our old teachings while seeking their deeper experiences.”

I’ll soften all of this in a moment. Then to another who expressed appreciation for the fellowship sermon of a couple of weeks back and was observing that some peers weren’t doing so well spiritually, here’s what I wrote:

“I just want to follow-up again and say that I appreciated the email you sent a week ago. I appreciate the loyalty you have to God and to the church. It really will pay over the long run as you bring up your children in the love of the Lord. They will respect your steady example. Don’t be too alarmed at the few around who send confusing signals. You might be surprised how many feel very uncertain of the very doubts they are projecting. In their hearts they will respect you more as you demonstrate your firm direction in the Lord. In fact, the Lord may use you to inspire others to reevaluate where they are. I have seen some remarkable turnabouts in my lifetime and am expecting more among those you may have in your mind. [No names were named, by the way.] God is very faithful, so we want to continue to show love and kindness to those who are currently seeming to have a contrary bent. We love them. The Lord loves them. We just want everyone to make the Rapture.”

That is how I feel. We do not want to assess the failure of anyone too harshly. They are someone’s son or daughter or brother or sister or mother or father or cousin. Extend mercy in your assessment of those who struggle spiritually. Love them. How can anyone object or have an argument with someone who refuses to argue? We do refuse to debate or argue. We just love them. We will not accommodate. When challenged, there comes a time when we must stand up and declare ourselves as briefly as we possibly can, but typically we are not challenged. We pray that God will recover people out of the snare of the devil. Love them. I have heard people say we are better off without them. No, we are not! We are better off with them. We have never been better off without somebody. We want people to make Heaven, so love them.

Show kindness, but do not be afraid to draw a line and convey clearly: I love this work, I love this ministry, and I recognize that we are merely human beings led by human beings. We’re flawed, every one. We don’t elevate ourselves. We are no different, as a people, than the church three blocks away—and I don’t have any church in mind. We are all people, so we have nothing in the way of a superiority complex along those lines. We see one another’s failures over time when we stay in the same church. Some don’t stay in the same church. Some, after five or ten years, just can’t take it anymore. They have seen the weaknesses of fellow human beings. What they didn’t know is that those fellow human beings probably couldn’t take their weaknesses either. That’s why God gave us the Bible. God establishes order to how we conduct ourselves when we work and live and breathe around one another, flawed though we be. It is necessary therefore to yield ourselves in order to benefit by our unity and fellowship.

I have learned, very slowly, to be cautious of some who inquire. If someone is honestly inquiring what a verse means, that’s one thing. But I have been drawn into discussions a few times where I realized too late that they really did not want to know about a verse. If they wanted a verse I could show them Hebrews 13:17 which says, “Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.” We are subject to the authority of the church as long as it does not conflict with the higher authority of God’s Word. Subordination is a Bible doctrine. It is necessary for the welfare of the church. One author wrote (and I regret that I did not note this source), that for many church positions there is “no express divine command. They are matters of convenience, things that tend to the order and harmony, the fellowship of the church. Hence, in the church we are to submit to all the proper regulations for conducting public worship, for the promotion of religion, and for the administration of discipline.”

Blessings of this Fellowship

These principles are true no matter what church a person attends. I would read Hebrews 13:17 to a Methodist, to a Nazarene, to an Assemblies of God. “Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves.” One is required to subject themselves to the order of the church, provided that order does not conflict with the Scriptures. If they find a conflict, then they have license to change churches. We think they should come to the Apostolic Faith Church! For those in any church, it does not work to switch churches every ten years because of a personality conflict. If you do that, you lose the value of your heritage. Some of you look back several generations. Those who abandon it set their posterity adrift. I have been around long enough now to have seen some who abandoned their heritage thirty years ago and now have children and grandchildren who do not even see one another on Sundays. They may go to three different churches. They have lost a terrific benefit.

Sometimes we are asked, “How do we answer people who ask why we do things the way we do?” I have a novel idea. Let’s answer them by telling them the truth. Tell them that you have benefited from the stability and security of this fellowship and you happily yield yourself to it because of what it brings to you. This is one time when I think it is okay to say, “This is the way that our church requests that we do things.” It’s the truth. Tell the truth.

When we embrace this fellowship, we reap the benefits that accumulate as a result of being part of it. Let’s come to God this morning with surrendered spirits, thanking Him for what we have seen and heard and experienced as a part of this great work.