Meeting Transcripts

Opening Remarks

Travels Abroad

Over the years, there have been many in our organization who have traveled abroad representing this Latter Rain Gospel that God has committed to us. Names that come to mind include Brothers George Hughes, Art Allen, Forrest Damron, Dick Taylor, and so many more. Today we are going to hear from some speakers who have been dispatched from Portland, since camp meeting, to different locations around the world. The names and faces have changed, but the mission remains the same; to present this Latter Rain Gospel to those who seem hungry to embrace it.

Our work continues to expand around the world. With the advent of the Internet, it has become more and more a global work. It is more difficult now for any one branch location in a comparatively remote area to stray from the sound practices that the Apostolic Faith has adhered to for over one hundred years, because if they did, they would be held accountable by others able to observe their behavior. The growth requires attention, and the attention often leads to more growth, and that is what we are seeing around the world.

There have been others, in addition to our speakers today, who have traveled since camp meeting, but these left from Portland. I went to the Philippines, but since Brother Bill McKibben went also, he will cover that trip for the both of us. We will proceed chronologically, for the most part.

Brother Sam Ajayi took two trips. He left for Brazil in July to strengthen a group that was established during his initial 2007 visit. Two months later, he went to Sydney, Australia, for the same purpose; to encourage the saints there.

Brother Dwight Baltzell attended the Botswana and Nigeria Faith City camp meetings in July and August.

In September, Brother Bob Downey went to St. Vincent, at the request of Brother Christopher King, to help celebrate the eightieth anniversary of our Lowman’s Hill church. 

Brother Earl Phillips spent three Sundays in the Dominican Republic. I initiated that trip by suggesting that we have someone hold combined ministers’ meetings there and remain for a few Sunday services.

Sister Deanna Moen spent two months in India last fall. The purpose of her trip was to work with attorneys to legalize our organization so we can operate in India within the legal structure, and to take steps to acquire a piece of property where a church is currently being built.

Debbie and I and the McKibbens left Christmas day for the Philippines. We attended their year-end consecration services, which are the equivalent of our camp meeting.

In January, Brother John Musgrave went to Romania to meet with several different groups in a more central part of that country. Those groups have indicated a strong interest in embracing the Apostolic Faith doctrine, practices, and way of life.

With that introduction, we will proceed.

God Gives the Increase

“Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one” (1 Corinthians 3:5).

Introduction

As our theme states, God gives the increase. The Corinthian church was marked by disharmony—they lacked oneness. Disharmony is a symptom of carnality. They were also childish in their conduct and full of jealousy and envy, which are also symptoms of carnality. This is why Paul told them that when he had last seen them, he could not speak to them as to the spiritual but had to speak as to the carnal. He went on to tell them that they walked as men, which implied that they had not received the grace of God.

One of the divisions that marked them was that some claimed to be of Paul, others of Apollos, and some of Peter. Paul asked the question, “Who is Paul?” Let’s answer the question. Paul was a missionary to Corinth; he was their first pastor. Let’s answer the question, “Who is Apollos?” He was the pastor that came after Paul. The Corinthians knew them both.

The Apostle used the illustration of a garden in which one plants and another waters. The first breaks up the ground, places the seed, does the weeding, and takes a certain amount of care over the seed. As time moves along, someone else comes and waters and nurtures the plant. Paul claimed to be the one who planted; he was the one from whom they received the Gospel. Apollos followed him. They each had a crop in mind. Just as with a garden, they did what they did in anticipation of reaping the benefits of their efforts. Paul and Apollos were in unity, so Paul admonished their followers to also be in unity. That condition would allow the crop to yield its full potential.

Walk in Unity

One topic not covered in these presentations is the challenges that are faced in each location. Disharmony reveals itself everywhere we go. Therefore, we preach the necessity of unity, of subjection, and of order. God cannot work as He would like to when people are in that state, so we teach that in God’s economy there is order. To benefit from the Gospel, we must walk according to that order.

To walk in unity, we must have a common understanding of how we operate. I will take the next few minutes to give some examples of how we operate by going over some of the subjects that have come my way over the last two or three months.

The King James Version

Here is one question that has arisen: “Is it all right to use a version of the Bible other than the King James Version in our churches?” This only applies to our English-speaking churches, of course, because the King James Version is in English. In America, for a unified approach in our organization, we use the King James Version—in our Sunday school, in our meetings, in our churches.

If a child is starting from scratch at learning to read the Bible, we might as well let them learn the King James language, which is so beautiful. Effective Sunday school teachers will do a good job of making the Word of God understandable no matter what version is used. In general, students are not concerned with what version we use. Many of them, when they start out, are not even aware that there is more than one version. The challenge exists when a teacher decides that the King James language is too difficult to understand. If we tell our children that the King James Version is very difficult to understand, that is what they will believe. If we do not tell them, it will not occur to them. In addition, it is not an accurate assessment; the King James is no more difficult than any other version. It is the Bible, so teach them! Just teach them the language of the Bible. This is a consistent approach that helps us to be in harmony throughout the organization.

Workers Who Break Policy

In the last couple of weeks, I was asked, “What do we do if someone is participating in the work that should not be?” If it’s a moral problem (and this wasn’t), it must be immediately addressed, and it should be addressed in a way, usually privately, with the idea of salvaging the soul who has been guilty of immorality. Our desire is not to shame them, but to save them. It has to be immediately addressed, though. Someone with a moral problem cannot be participating in the work.

If it’s a matter of church policy, we should tarry for a time and allow the Lord to do what He does so well—deal with the situation, deal with the heart. The exception would be if tarrying for a time creates a whole new set of challenges that could be avoided by addressing the matter immediately. We do not advocate going on head-hunting missions, but we also cannot have someone participating in the work who disagrees with church policy. A failure to address this is not acceptable. If you are unsure as to where the organization stands on certain matters of policy, then contact me. If I feel that the whole body of the ministry is unclear, then I will try my best to offer some clarity.

We do not need to fear addressing these types of policy issues with those who, for lack of a better word, are offenders. They will respect us for kindly conveying to them our boundaries. They would not respect us if we cowered, hung our heads, and failed to convey it. There are some workers who are in the work today because they have reversed previous personal decisions and have decided to comply with church policy. I could name a number who have pondered the issue and said, “You know, I value what God has done through this work, and I want to come along,” and they have come along. There are those who I could name also who do not participate in the work because they haven’t changed their minds yet. I would really like to emphasize “yet.” They haven’t changed their minds yet, but some will, with time.

We owe it to the individuals involved to address the issue; we owe it to our congregations; and we owe it to our fellow ministers and pastors, because to not address it is to undermine all of the above. If you observe something that does not pertain to your location, show a great deal of mercy and understanding toward what you might think is not being addressed. What you may not know is that it is being addressed cautiously and with a little time.

These situations will eventually touch every one of us, not just in our local church, but also in a personal way. It is inevitable, but that does not influence church policy. I thought I would convey to you the approach I took the last time I addressed this matter some months ago. It was a couple. Before they left my office, they knew four things.

There was no doubt in their minds that if they continued to follow their personal policy, which conflicted with church policy, it would not work for them to participate in our church work (this sounds harsh the way that I am conveying it right now, but it wasn’t harsh at all in the environment).

The second thing they clearly understood was that I would support their prerogative, or their right, to make a decision that was different than where we stand as a church, even if I did not support the decision itself.

The third thing they knew was that I would not make their decision for them. Individuals have to make their own choices, and we preach that. God gave us all a free will, and we can exercise that free will as we please. We want people to respond from their hearts, based upon what God has put in their hearts. We cannot impose upon them demands that do not come from their hearts. If it’s not in their heart, then it’s a charade. We do not want that. I will add that, in this particular case, I encouraged them to make a decision as a couple. I am more concerned for their marriage than I am for their participation in the work. I want the marriage to be strong and firm, and I told them that. I said, “You pray about this, and look to God together, and you reach the conclusion as a couple.”

The fourth thing that was very clear was that they would be expected to withdraw from the work if their decision was to continue in the vein that they were considering. In other words, they would be expected to withdraw from the work rather than me asking them to discontinue involvement. As far as I recall, I have never had to reach the point where I have declared to someone, “You need to be removed from the work.”

Our job is to make sure there is no confusion in the body. If we handle these matters gently and reasonably, even those who disagree or make a decision that is different than what we stand for as a church cannot help but respect the church’s right to have a position. They would expect that. They expect that of their employers, or if they are an employer, they expect that of their employees. If they go to school, they expect that of their professors—all through life. It is only reasonable, but we also have to be reasonable and honor their right to make their decisions, and then not berate them afterward that they made a decision contrary to what we hoped they would. We love them; we honor them.

Preserving our Heritage

Just as a side note, arguments pro and con on our positions are exercises in futility. They do not influence me one way or another. The reason they do not influence me is that I believe we have been commissioned by God to pass to the next generation, as nearly as we can, what was delivered to us. All the logic in the world does not impact the commission that we have received from God.

One thing I learned on our trip to the Philippines was to distinguish between “affiliating” and “embracing.” I really appreciated what I saw there when that distinction was offered. Affiliation is pictured as coming alongside. There can be some legal benefits to affiliating with any organization, such as being recognized by the government in a locality. So, to affiliate is to come along. To embrace is to become a part of. I have used this illustration with Sister Deanna in editing documents to authorize churches in India. Initially the paperwork said, “to affiliate with the Apostolic Faith Mission of Portland, Oregon.” I said, “No, no!” They are not affiliating. If they are just tagging along, they are not Apostolic Faith. They must embrace what we stand for—our doctrine, our practices, and our way of life. And that, as you have already discovered, is what they want!

You saw the pictures of the saints in India. The Gospel we adhere to did not start in Portland or Azusa Street. This Gospel came from Heaven. Those who never knew about Portland or Azusa Street have it. In fact, Sister Deanna told me that when she went to India the first time, one of the sisters there was very apprehensive of this lady missionary coming from America. They had had women missionaries come before who, in the eyes of the Indian people, were worldly because they had jewelry, makeup, and were adorned in a manner that they deemed disappointing. They did not know what to expect of Sister Deanna, but when they saw her, before they ever heard her preach, they rejoiced. They saw holiness. Sister Florence Crawford did not teach them to have this standard. They were not taught by the holiness people from whom Sister Crawford received the Gospel, but they received their understanding from God.

We have been commissioned by God to pass to the next generation, as nearly as we can, what was delivered to us. A litany of reasons why we should change something does not impress me. Ultimately, those things are a relationship matter between the individual and God. They are not a matter between the individual and the church. Most of our people were called by God to serve Him in the Apostolic Faith Church. God did that. We did not impose it upon anyone. God called them, and that means to serve Him within the order of the Apostolic Faith Church. 

We accepted this commission, by the way, when we entered into the ministry of the Apostolic Faith Church. The foundation was built by others. That is what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 3:10, “I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.” We are building on other people’s labors. When we think of the foundation, we often hearken back to Sister Crawford, but she did not invent this. I have ordered books, some out of print now, that are a compilation of some of the holiness sermons over the centuries. This holiness Gospel was preached before Azusa Street, so Sister Crawford was building upon what she had been taught. We continue to nurture and build upon that as well. It is interesting to see those who spend a lifetime fighting God’s order, versus those who spend a lifetime contently serving within God’s order.

Some Things Change

Sometimes we hear that the church is changing a policy or that the church has changed in some way, so now it’s okay to ________ (you fill in the blank). Something that did not used to be okay, but now is. I do not like the idea of anything changing, but we cannot deny that some things must change. As I pondered this, I thought of something that has changed in the last two or three years. It used to be that if a teenager stayed out past curfew during camp meeting, they would have to climb over the fence and under the barbed wire to get back in. Now we just give them the code to the gate. We change the code after camp meeting for security reasons because we do not want someone who does not belong to the Apostolic Faith getting in and disrupting things. The purpose of the fence, the gate, and the code is to keep those people out, not to keep our people in. So what has changed? Did the curfew change? No, we still want people in by midnight. They really should be in sooner than that, but that’s another story. All that has changed is that we are recognizing that this is a parental issue, not a church issue. I am not in charge of raising your grandchildren. I am not in charge of being everyone’s guardian. That is assigned to whoever has that responsibility.

What has changed is that we are less willing to impose ourselves uninvited into the personal lives of God’s people. If invited, then we will respond. However, we do not want to respond if we are being baited; we have to be careful of that. To illustrate, when I first got saved, I drove a car that I thought was maybe a little too sporty for somebody who was saved. In hindsight, it was probably okay, but I was not comfortable with it. It was a 1969 Mustang Mach 1. I went to Brother Marty Girard, my pastor, and said, “You know, I am a little nervous about my car. Should I get rid of it?” He told me I could, but he did not emphasize it. He did not tell me I needed to, but I felt like I wanted to. So I sold it to my unsaved, younger brother, Harlan (who is here today), and soon afterwards, he wrecked it. I usually add one more thing when I tell this story: I sold it to him for about $1,800 as I recall, and when he wrecked it, he got $2,200 from the insurance company, but he did me a $400 favor by taking that car!

Later on, Brother Nolan Roby was my pastor, when Debbie and I needed to get a different car. I looked at a Datsun B210 station wagon—quite a contrast between the Mustang; it was just a short car where they got rid of the trunk and called it a station wagon. I went to Brother Nolan and had him test drive that car. He was my pastor, and I had asked, “What do you think; should I buy this car?” He did not need to help me, because this was a personal issue, but I invited him to. He told me to buy the car, so now I can blame him for the fact that he got me into a “gutless wonder.” Not really, I am just illustrating the fact that if we are invited, then it may be fine to give our opinion. My main point is that we are less willing to go in uninvited. So that is what has changed, perhaps before my time.

I only arrived here thirty-five years ago, so I hear all these stories (that are equally unimpressive to me) of how things used to be. Perhaps there is some validity to remembering and learning from those things, but we want to remember that some things have not changed. Let me take a couple of minutes to look at what has not changed.

Some Things Don’t Change

Principles that pertain to church morality and conduct have not changed. We still want holy living, and that is why this holiness series has been developed. I want to be specific here. I have heard this false equivalence repeated over and over again for the last ten years or so: “We used to say, no television and that has changed, so a lot of other things will change too.” I want to stress the fact that this is a false equivalence. I was not here during the times that some of you refer to, but what I heard when I came into the Gospel was the principle that we should not be entertained by the immorality that flows from Hollywood. So if we want to build an accurate equivalence, what we would say is, “Since it is now okay to be entertained by the smut that flows from Hollywood, then it must also be okay to change other things.” Is it now okay to be entertained by the smut that flows from Hollywood? I don’t think it is! However, I will not impose myself uninvited into people’s homes and tell them what they should or should not watch. I will tell you that I have never seen an episode of Friends or Survivor or The Bachelor or The Bachelorette—whatever it is called. Those things that some people say used to be important remain important to a whole lot of us. So don’t tell me that it has changed. I don’t think it has.

A careful walk still matters! I was recently reminded of this firsthand by a young person who was seeking God and was so intent on seeking Him that they would not even read the comics. When I got saved, I stopped reading the sports page. I had been in one Apostolic Faith Church meeting, gotten saved at home that night, and then for two months did not know what to do, but God was helping me. I was crying out in desperation all by myself to Him. One day during that time I went to my parents’ home and found my dad watching Oregon State play UCLA. I wanted to win my dad to the Lord, and there were only two minutes left in the game. I thought I should sit down and at least spend time with him, so I sat down. Watching the game, though, grieved my spirit. That ball game went right down to the very wire and then into overtime. Maybe I should have stayed and watched the overtime, but I didn’t. I needed God! There is a heightened sensitivity—a heightened awareness; a carefulness when God is drawing us to Him.

What is wrong with a careful walk? We need to pray that God will send revival to the extent that the pettiness that people let themselves fall into is something distant. We want them to be so focused on God that they do not notice some of the things that have hindered them. When people begin to just seek God, some of these details begin to take care of themselves. We should not have to address these details from the pulpit and I do not advocate doing that. I do advocate addressing principles.

Last night a young man, Eric, testified in the service and declared himself to be a student at Multnomah School of the Bible. He has been coming to our church for four or five years. He is in the Nazarene Church, which is where my sister got saved. (She was in transition between the Nazarene and Apostolic Faith when I got saved.) The first time he came to church, he was wearing an earring in his ear, but he has not worn it now for a few years. Three or four years ago after he had been coming a while, he called me and said that he had gotten saved. Then he called me about a year later and said, “I just want you to know that I got sanctified last night.” Now we are a couple years down the road, and he is still coming and prays at our altars. He told Brother Earl Phillips the other day, “My church doesn’t preach holiness.” They are disinterested. (I am not condemning the Nazarene faith. The books that I referred to a while ago were published by the Nazarene Church. They compiled those holiness sermons from the past). Eric also refers to this Latter Rain Gospel. I do not know if he has read their history and understands that the Nazarene Church, as an organization, rejected the baptism of the Holy Ghost as a third experience.

One of our young ladies went away to college in a different state where there was no Apostolic Faith Church nearby. She asked, “Where do I go to church?” I told her, “If I were you and had to choose between the Assembly of God and the Nazarene, I would tell you to go to the Nazarene, because they preach justification by faith and entire sanctification.” After she had been there for a year, I saw her at camp meeting and asked, “By the way, do they preach sanctification?” She said she never heard a sermon about sanctification. Of course, that is just one church, but we do not want that to be the Apostolic Faith Church down the road. We want to hold to what we have embraced.

It has been implied to me that if we were to change some things, everyone would be happy and there would be a surge in growth among our churches in the United States. That is not true—it simply is not true! If we were to change a few things, ten or fifteen years from now our small branch churches would still be small, but they would be small worldly branch churches, because we would have been driven by the elements that resist the way of holiness. Remember, we have been commissioned by God to do what we do.

It is easy to focus on those who are not doing so well. It is worth noting that throughout our work there are dozens and dozens of quality young people who love the Apostolic Faith Gospel—it’s a Bible Gospel. Debbie and I hosted a Valentine’s Day weekend event in which fifty couples under the age of forty attended. A huge percentage of them love this Gospel just the way it is. They are content. They have no objections—they love it! They are not the least bit impressed with those who try to drag down what we currently have. They see it. It’s on MySpace and Bebo. They shake their heads and wonder what those other families are thinking. If they bring someone to my attention, I just encourage them to, “Be gracious in your assessment of them.” I tell them, “They are coming along just like the rest of us, and we pray that one day they will embrace what we appreciate so much.” Our young people want their children brought up the same way they were brought up—in this way of holiness. They like a careful, conservative environment, and that is what we have. We owe it to them to keep marching along.

Notice those who love the Gospel just the way it is, and do not be harsh to those who are contrary. We want to love them; we do not want to push them away. I made it very clear to the couple that I referred that I would not tolerate them being disparaged in any way if they ended up making a decision different than the one that I hoped they would make. We want to love them rather than berate them.

Living Holy Series

The Living Holy series is designed for practical application. However, we send it out with fear and trembling, because we are at the mercy of whoever ends up instructing the class. If the instructor lets the class degrade into details, then the students will leave uninspired. Somehow, we want to elevate their sights and point them to the principles of God’s Word, and let the Spirit of God speak to their hearts on the details. Then they will leave the class inspired and saying, “I want to be a part of this.”

Along the way, we still have to be very careful not to assume that because we are a holiness Gospel, everyone understands that sanctification is a second definite, instantaneous work of grace. A lot of the material in here relates to spiritual growth, but you want to keep before your people that the Bible very clearly reveals the two-fold nature of sin, which requires the two-fold remedy for sin.

I have been helped by learning to distinguish between carnality and humanity, and then between purity and maturity. Holiness does not make a person absolutely perfect like God is perfect, but holiness will purify that carnality. Purity answers to carnality and maturity answers to humanity. Humanity is the area of our lives where we develop, where we grow, where we observe that we have performed less than stellarly and answer the Lord’s checks. That is humanity. In working with one another, we see one another’s humanity—one another’s shortcomings. That is not carnality.

We need to grasp these things so that our people do not have an improper view of entire sanctification, thinking that the experience will make them absolutely perfect through life and that they will never make a mistake in judgment.

Determining Who Will Preach

With respect to preaching, we have no equal opportunity policy. I face this at camp meeting where we have more preachers than we have meetings. I want everyone to feel important and that they are valuable and useable, but at the end of the day, I am driven by who God wants to preach. I am not going to say that every decision was who God wanted, but every decision was who we prayed about and who ended up preaching. I will leave it to you whether God was in it or not. It is not possible to use everyone. This is not just true at camp meeting. Sometimes a pastor wants to develop the younger preachers. Sometimes one may not be as effective as they used to be. We must be gracious and just simply support the one who is called upon for that day and say, “Amen!” We trust that God will guide in all of this.

Politics

Another matter that came up is politics. We want to leave politics out of the pulpit and out of Sunday school. We need to stick to what we do well, and that is to present the Gospel. We would lose half our audience if we were to identify with any one political candidate. We would lose our nonprofit status if we were to recommend someone! It is surprising how many will not say what they are thinking. I could give you some examples, but I will not. You may assume that everyone feels the same way as you do, but everyone does not. They do not need to. Just leave politics alone. If you don’t, you will lose a good percentage of your audience who disagree completely with you on a political issue. That does not mean that we have to stay away from moral issues, but people get so bombarded. I do not think I even reminded our Portland people to vote this year. I concluded that they probably knew there was an election. So when they came to the House of God, I wanted them to hear something different.

Ask Directly

If you want to know what I think about something (and I don’t have a high value of what I think) it is best to ask me personally. That is better than somebody else telling you what I think. This is because context is everything. I may have given an answer to someone in the context of how well we know each other, or circumstances under which the question emerged. So just ask me! It won’t hurt for very long, I promise you.

Tax Law Session

Some have had income tax law questions regarding pastors. Brother Doug Brenner has offered to conduct an instructional pastor tax law class for an hour or so for those who are interested. It will be held on the first Monday of camp meeting around 9:30 or 10:00 o’clock for pastors or wives. He is not motivated by getting your business, because he wants to retire. He knows tax law and you do not know tax law, so after an hour, you will know more than you knew. After the class, you will probably know so much that you will think you should hire a professional. That is up to you. If you want to attend the class, please contact Brother Bob Downey. Perhaps there will not be that many who are interested because most of you have your own tax person—the person to whom I would direct you if you had a tax question anyway.

Questions that could arise would include “Is it illegal to use church money to pay for personal items?” It is illegal. That may not have been the case forty years ago. One time a pastor said he was told by the overseer, “If you need a suit, have the church buy a suit.” That pastor was not taking anything from the church, which is a factor, but also it was a different tax law. If you did that now, I don’t know if that would be called embezzlement, or what, but it is illegal to use church funds to pay for personal matters. Many of the regulations are just common sense. Do not infringe, unless you want your name and picture on the front page of your local paper.

Just because something is legal does not mean that it should be done. The pastor comes last. When I was the pastor in the Dallas and Eureka churches, they provided a home and paid the utilities. They could afford to pay the insurance on the car and my fuel. I appreciated the monetary value of all of those expenses. I questioned whether I was worth it and tried to be very, very careful as I try to be careful now. I was well aware that I came last. Church bills need to be paid, and that is why we are employed in the secular workforce in addition to serving as pastors. All of us work in branch church life. We would not expect anything else. I did not expect a congregation of thirty or forty to pay for me, my wife, my son, and my daughter to go on vacation. I wanted to work, because I did not want them to think that I took a trip on them. We must be good custodians of what God has given us. Our people trust us. We should be able to open the church checkbook at potluck night and have the saints not get indigestion when they see what it looks like.

Closing Remarks

Thank you so much for coming. It has been a great week, and we are not done yet. We trust that God will give us great meetings tonight and over the Lord’s Day, if He tarries. Many of you will be returning home, and we pray that the benefits of what you have received and felt here will extend to your services as well. We do appreciate your coming here. We try our best to support you as we can. We know we are limited that way, but we do not want you to feel that you are alone with no support. We pray for you, and we are glad that you support one another in the branch churches. That is of such great value and inspiration. We thank God for each of you.

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